# THIS IS WAR DAMMIT **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2000, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713 "2000-10-12T19:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Major\_Feelgud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3be4f8/32.png) [@Major\_Feelgud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Major_Feelgud)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/141 "2000-10-16T01:15:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*What the hell do you mean, I’m naive because I rail against injustice? \*\* I never said that. Better read your initial post. You’re naive because you’re railing against the low wages and how the US was bad. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Should I just turn my head and pretend it doesn’t happen? Or should I try and do something about it? \*\* OK, your version of trying to help is writing in the Pit? I’m trying to help you because your facts are wrong. You’ve already tacitly acknowledged that already by changing your rant. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > No, I’m not saying that my ranting about it is helping them, persay. But I’m sure as hell not going to keep my mouth shut when I think people should be aware of this. I think it’s important to know what’s going on. \*\* And I’m trying to help you, but getting your facts straight. > [@](#): > > \*\* > BTW, just curious, have you ever taken a course on Latin America? > \*\* I’m an amateur historian. I study this stuff for fun. I too want a better world for all, but I’m not ranting against the wrong things like you are. ---
**Author:** ![Major\_Feelgud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3be4f8/32.png) [@Major\_Feelgud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Major_Feelgud)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/142 "2000-10-16T01:22:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Did I say everyone should be rich? And how the fuck do you know if I’m rich or not? By most standards, I’m far from it! I don’t drive a mercedes. However, why shouldn’t a child in some impoverished country be able to have a fucking drink of water that’s not from a polluted river? > > You remind me of the big boss who says, “Someone should have to suffer so I can be rich.” Fuck you. Fuck all OVER you if you think that’s right. Excuse me for thinking that a child shouldn’t starve or have rickets and skurvy and polio. > Excuse me for thinking people should have enough to eat. Excuse me for thinking that these were basic human rights that everyone was entitled to. I didn’t know eating and simply being able to live without worrying about cholera and typhoid was a fucking PRIVILEDGE. I didn’t know that going to bed with a stomach hurting from hunger pangs was just something you had to fucking deal with. > > “If I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. If I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.” > > There is nothing wrong with having money. Nothing wrong at all-I’d like to be rich too. However, I don’t think that means I can get what I want at the expense of others. Nor do I think it’s being naive or a moron to believe that people should have enough food to eat. > Fuck if this isn’t a proper debate-this is the Pit. I hope I"m not too out of line, but this is pissing me off. \*\* You stupid cunt. You’ve changed your rants again because you know your rants are indefensible. 1. Read your initial post. 2. “However, why shouldn’t a child in some impoverished country be able to have a fucking drink of water that’s not from a polluted river?” OK, you stupid cunt, what’s this got to do with NIKE or Kathy Lee? 3. “You remind me of the big boss who says, “Someone should have to suffer so I can be rich.” Fuck you. Fuck all OVER you if you think that’s right. Excuse me for thinking that a child shouldn’t starve or have rickets and skurvy and polio.” YFIC (You fucking ignorant cunt), you’re just plain ranting now. Where the fuck in your big vagina did I ever say that? That’s what activists do when they’re cornered. They just start fucking ranting and saying things like: a) Why the fuck should kids be born with AIDS. b) When the secretary got raped and complained she got fired. Get back to the topic you stupid crabby ignorant cunt. Stupid cunt. Fuck off and die. Go to Pakistan and live there for a year. See what the real world is like. Stupid piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/143 "2000-10-16T01:24:16Z")
I never said posting it in the Pit was helping them, dickweed. I’m just ranting about shit that bothers me. I thought that’s what the Pit was for. _Whoa, this is the first time I’ve had a real Pit flame fest…_ ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/144 "2000-10-16T01:27:54Z")
Well, then don’t fucking tell me I’m like some rich kid who thinks everyone else should be rich too. Don’t fucking give me that shit. _Mods, if I get out of hand at any time, please, let me know._ ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/145 "2000-10-16T01:46:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*However, why shouldn’t a child in some impoverished country be able to have a fucking drink of water that’s not from a polluted river? > > _snip_ > > Excuse me for thinking that a child shouldn’t starve or have rickets and skurvy and polio. > Excuse me for thinking people should have enough to eat. Excuse me for thinking that these were basic human rights that everyone was entitled to. I didn’t know eating and simply being able to live without worrying about cholera and typhoid was a fucking PRIVILEDGE. I didn’t know that going to bed with a stomach hurting from hunger pangs was just something you had to fucking deal with. > > \*\* And, I gather from all of this that you blame the United States for: [ul] Polluted rivers Starvation Rickets Skurvy (sic) Polio Human rights abuses Cholera Typhoid, and Hunger pangs [/ul] Guin, we’re not responsible for all of that. To claim we are, as you seem to do, is worse than merely naive. It’s _intentionally_ naive, and that’s worse than being uninformed because you’re simply closing your eyes to the truth. Look at all of the dollars the US pours into humanitarian programs, agricultural programs, health care and immunizations, building infrastructure…the list goes on ad infinitum. You can’t just see the ills of the developing world and blame the US without taking into account all of the foreign aid and other assistance the US provides. It’s fine to rail against the machine and try to promote loftier standards, but first you need to be armed with _all_ the facts. If someone says, “They’re starving Guatemalan children,” then you should ask _who_ and _why_. When someone says, “They raped the women who were organizing unions,” ask _who_ did the raping. Your professor may have an agenda of his/her own. Make them work for their money rather than blindly accepting whatever it is they spew forth from the front of the classroom. Develop your own “BS filter” so that, when you hear an outrageous claim, the little bells go off and you say, “Wait a minute…that doesn’t make sense.” It’s been said that one really starts learning _after_ they graduate from college, and to a great degree, I believe it. Make sure you’re hearing everything and not just the parts you _want_ to hear. It’ll set you up better for when you’re confronted with real life. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/146 "2000-10-16T01:52:25Z")
**Major feelgud** Is it too much to infer, or are you a 1st generation Pakistani? > [@](#): > > Go to Pakistan and live there for a year. See what the real world is like. > [@](#): > > I’m a 1st generation immigrant Is it even remotely possible that you have a bias about **Guin’s** posts because of your background? I’m not trying to side with either of you. Just trying to ask you if you are having a “immigrant” moment? And, for my money, you don’t get anywhere by using any of the following > [@](#): > > You stupid cunt…YFIC (You fucking ignorant cunt), Where the fuck in your big vagina…Stupid cunt. Fuck off and die. Go to Pakistan and live there for a year. See what the real world is like. Stupid piece of shit. Even if this is the Pit, \*you insensitive, lucky-to-have-escaped-the-third-world, piece of male-ego “amatuer” historian(with emphasis on the **amatuer** ), your choice of terms considering the level of flame was uncalled for. Oh, yeah. PUTZ! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/147 "2000-10-16T02:08:23Z")
Hmmm. Perhaps it would help, then. Major Feelgud, fuck off. The language in your posts is uncalled for. If your arguments are sound, they’ll stand on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/148 "2000-10-16T02:11:21Z")
Rysdad-No, I don’t think it’s so much that my professor has an “agenda.” If you knew him, you’d know what I mean. And it’s not like it’s any news that the US isn’t so innocent ALL THE TIME. (I mean, we’re nothing compared to some other countries, but still, some of our foreign policies are pretty shitty)…I didn’t necessarily say that the US was directly responsible. Perhaps I went off on a tangent. For that I appologize. I guess I meant to say-that some people do suffer, and it seems like some CORPORATIONS in the US perhaps have a hand in it. I don’t know. SamClem-thank you for defending me. Personally, I think Major Feelgud’s posts speak for themselves. To everyone-I’m sorry if I rambled. Yes, this is the Pit, no appologies for being a bitch. Never! No, I’m simply saying I’m fucking tired and I’ve had a long day, and when I’m thus, I tend to ramble and spew verbally. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/149 "2000-10-16T02:24:50Z")
Guin, No problem. I’m glad that you’re actually taking an interest in the world outside your campus. Alot of college students don’t. Acquire all the knowledge you can. Then, you’ll be better armed to go out and try and effect the changes to the conditions you see as inferior. I hope you can hang on to your ideals. The world can turn even the most rose-colored-glasses idealist into a cynic. Don’t let it do that to you. Now, go study. There’s a pop quiz tomorrow. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Idnew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/278dde/32.png) [@Idnew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idnew)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/150 "2000-10-16T03:15:16Z")
Giraffe > [@](#): > > You’re right, oldscratch. I should have said “if she had any power at all, RosieWolf would be far > more contemptible than the people who did this.” Her mentality is (to me) more contemptible than theirs. > > But, the fact that she’s just an ineffectual turd should not be forgotten. For my oversight, I apologize. **Finally somebody recognizes her for what she really is** smooth operator > [@](#): > > RosieWolf all I can say is that it scares me to the depths of my soul to think that at any time you represented the United States military in ANY capacity whatsoever. I hope that anyone else in the military that sounds as if they are as RABID as you has been or is being watched closely. **She sat at a desk and got kicked out for DWI** friedo > [@](#): > > I agree, but I think she’s lying. \*\* She has always been a liar; \*\* > [@](#): > > ``` > quote: > > By the way, RosieWolf, I’m sorry to hear of your 70% service-connected disability. > You sacrificed your health for your country just as much as any similarly disabled > combat vet, and I want to make sure it’s clear that my disagreement with you on > philosophical grounds doesn’t stop me from respecting the sacrifices you have > made for America. I wish you all the best! > > ``` \*\*She didn’t make any. \*\* Rosie, thank you for showing the members your true colors. All yellow. ---
**Author:** ![beakerxf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc79bd/32.png) [@beakerxf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beakerxf)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/151 "2000-10-16T05:13:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sandyr \* > I do wish their factory conditions were on a par with ours, but I also think putting American values and mores on another culture is disingenuous. Those factories pay their employees more than a living wage - that is why the locals want to work there. When people stop wanting to work there the factories will straighten up. I don’t think this has anything to do with forcing our mores other countries, but expecting American countries to follow those mores. If fifty cents is good wage, then that’s great. However, their are other factors to consider. How safe are the working conditions? How long are the working hours? How long are the rest periods? Are they allowed to take time off if they are sick and injured without fear of being fired? Are our comapnies taking their worker’s welfare to heart? or do they see them as cheap, expendible, and easily replaced labor? Many of our labor laws here in America are written in workers’ blood. I would hope that our companies take these lessons to heart and don’t repeat past wrongs just because some other country has lax labor laws. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/152 "2000-10-16T05:50:18Z")
I should probably read pages two and three of this thread, because I’m probably not going to be the first to make this observation, but I gotta say it, man. First Rosie claims to be a disabled veteran, and was denied the opportunity to fight because of her disability. Then, she claims she was denied the opportunity to fight because of her sexual gender. I’m still working on that one… Finally, she claims that she did ten years and some change in the Army, would have done twenty because she was on PMS. Still working on that one, too. Since when is PMS recognized as a disability? Serious problem, yes, but with hormonal and herbal therapies, plus being a bit more careful about the diet at certain times of the month, it is manageable. Rosie, better stock up on industrial strength tampons. From the tone of your posts, Aunt Flo is due for an extended visit… ---
**Author:** ![LittlePotato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc8723/32.png) [@LittlePotato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LittlePotato)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/153 "2000-10-16T11:59:09Z")
**Thea Logica** > [@](#): > > Since when is PMS recognized as a disability? Serious problem, yes, but with hormonal and > herbal therapies, plus being a bit more careful about the diet at certain times of the month, it is > manageable. **LMAO 🙂 I think she is indeed a very sick person(in da head), yes, do go back and read some of the other BS she wrote. Think maybe she needs to lay off the booze and whacky weed a bit more.** > [@](#): > > Originally posted by tiggeril > I think a drunk rabid ferret smoking crack while tripping before taking a hit > after getting run over by a semi truck driven by a post-coital Pat Buchanan > would be more logical and sensical than our dear Rosie. ROTFLMAO 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/154 "2000-10-16T13:27:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > **Our government usually has a hand in their government. It’s called Corporatism.** No, that would be called “imperialism.” For all the “Corporatism” you can bandy about, the fact remains that the problems in Guatemala are the fault of the Guatemalans, specifically the Guatemalans government. Look at it in very simple terms: Philips, the big industrial firm, is a Dutch company headquartered in the Netherlands. They operate manufacturing facilities throughout the world. Amazingly, the facilities they operate in places like the USA, Canada, and Australia pay high wages, well above $15/hour. Yet the plants they operate in third world countries pay very low wages. If corporations and governments are in cahoots to fuck people in the manner you describe, why aren’t they fucking people over HERE as badly as they are in Third World countries? It’s the same company, right? They’re interested in profits and nothing else, right? You don’t really think Philips cares more about workers in Vancouver than they do about workers in Manila, do you? The only difference is the country - and its government - that the factory’s based in. Do our corporations exploits Third World workers? Sure, of course they do. Is it the USA’s fault people in Guatemala are poor? No way. They wouldn’t be any less poor if American firms didn’t build factories there. The USA builds factories in Canada and Canadians aren’t poor (I’m Canadian, btw.) They build factories in New Zealand and New Zealanders aren’t poor. They build factories in Germany and Germans aren’t poor. I don’t think for one instant that U.S. firms hate Guatemalans but love Germans, so the obvious explanation would be that Germany, Canada, New Zealand et al. are doing something that Guatemala isn’t. My guesses would be: - Democracy - Rule of law - Relatively little corruption - Civilian control of the army - Education spending If Guatemala wants to be rich, kicking American business out of the country will make it worse. They’d be better off trying to fix their own problems. ---
**Author:** ![RosieWolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@RosieWolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RosieWolf)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/155 "2000-10-16T13:58:36Z")
_Originally posted by Thea Logica \*\* First Rosie claims to be a disabled veteran, and was denied the opportunity to fight because of her disability._\*\* Yes… you should go back and read it again…Never said my disability kept me from fighting… _ **Then, she claims she was denied the opportunity to fight because of her sexual gender. I’m still working on that one…** _ If you had any experience in the military yourself, women were not allowed in combat until the mid-90s. I got out in 85. _ **Finally, she claims that she did ten years and some change in the Army, would have done twenty because she was on PMS. Still working on that one, too.** _ Never claimed to be in the Army, was the Air Force… go back and read again. I was a civilian employee for the Army during Desert Storm. **IDNEW** If you know so much, when did **YOU** serve in the military in any way??.. Which of your children served??.. How many of your husbands served??.. How would you know what I did in the military… don’t recall seeing you following me around while I worked on C-130s, inspecting F-15s, climbing oil tanks, investigating traffic accidents and fatalities, running traffic safety seminars, flying from island to island in the Pacific to conduct inspections, rebuilding helicopter engines, etc. Crawl back in your corner and shutup you stupid bitch. You and \*\*LittlePotato \*\*(your other self) are only capable of spewing out garbage and couldn’t make an intelligent post about the SUBJECT of this thread or any other thread. I put the two of you in the same class as Clinton… never served, never could… did you only exhale also? _**now… back to the [hijack]… ty Major Feelgud, Guinistasia (sp), Rocket88, and others. Am learning some very interesting information and opinions from the [hijack]. Please continue…**_ 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Fortune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Commander\_Fortune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commander_Fortune)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/156 "2000-10-16T14:13:59Z")
Uh, Rosie According to Idnew’s homepage, she’s your sister. Her homepage has a link to your homepage on it as well as crediting you with a banner design. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/157 "2000-10-16T14:27:16Z")
Leave the Dutch out of this, you imperial bastard! Oh, you’re a Canuck. Never mind then 🙂 In fairness, you do have a point. It is hypocritical (is that the word?) to blame corporations for labour situations in foreign countries where they just happen to own a production facility. As long as they’re complying with local laws and international human rights treaties, they are under no obligation to pay a guy that stitches footballs together the same wages that a doctor would earn in that country. Basic economics, and in a lot of cases a win-win situation (if you’ll forgive me the yuppy-ish term), because the local companies often offer poorer working conditions. * * * As for the OP. Rosie. Rosie, Rosie, Rosie. My goodness, how I had plans to tear you apart and make you look like the dumbass you are, after reading that OP. But gradually progressing down the thread, I became more and more convinced that I could never make you look like a bigger fool than you already made yourself look. I’m just happy to be in the know that it is YOU who has to live with that fucked up view of international politics and the US role in it, and not me. I SO wanted to tell you about all the recognition that US Vets still get here in Europe for their efforts in the liberation. Adding to that, the attitude of gratitude that prevails when it comes to US economical aid following WWII (which, contrary to your statements, wasn’t primarily aimed at Germany. For obvious reasons, I’d say :rolleyes:). But then I realised that the Marshall Plan was thought up and implemented by people with a humanity so alien to your thought processes, that my mentioning it wouldn’t matter anyway. I doubt if you even know who Marshall was. I’m glad to see so many Americans who ARE able to put things into the right perspective. The US has done many great things in terms of international military operations. Of course, in these days it’s usually under the UN flag in which case I tend to think of it as a unified international army rather than separate national ones (I know, there’s always local political hassle over the allocation of troups etc., but I’m talking in principal here). The US has also been involved in some downright despicable incidents within the last 100 years. Is this strange? Of course it isn’t. The US has been one of the main world powers over the last century, rising to that position in the centuries preceding it. We only need to look at any European country that became a major world power a few hundred years ago. Newly gained power corrupts the vision of a nation and its decision makers. My own country was almost solely responsible for all slave transports to the New World throughout the 16th century. We exploited our colonies throughout the world, like South Africa and Indonesia, with no respect for the locals or their traditions and property. Religions or governments that opposed ours where dealt with with brute force. It is all in history now, and we as a nation have learned from it. So has the USA over the last 100 years. Vietnam is of course the closest to my Golden Age analogy above. It is all about learning not to misuse an immense power and influence. I’m sure a second Vietnam would not happen now. The above may sound somewhat incoherent, but I do hope I make some sense to those with an open mind. In any case, no disrespect is intended to the US. Although I’m sure Rosie will find some anyway. Was the bombing of the Cole a terrorist act? Yes. Is retaliation the answer? Fuck no. For a clear picture of what retaliation leads to, turn on your TV and tune into CNN. I’m sure there’s an item on Israel pretty soon. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/158 "2000-10-16T15:10:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RosieWolf \* > \*\* . . . when did **YOU** serve in the military in any way??.. Which of your children served??.. How many of your husbands served??.. How would you know what I did in the military… don’t recall seeing you following me around while I worked on C-130s, inspecting F-15s, climbing oil tanks, investigating traffic accidents and fatalities, running traffic safety seminars, flying from island to island in the Pacific to conduct inspections, rebuilding helicopter engines, etc. \*\* I can’t speak for **Thea** , but I served in the Air Force from 92-96. I was a Defensive Command Control and Communications CounterMeasures Specialist with the 68th Intelligence Squadron stationed at Brooks AFB, San Antonio, TX. I’ve been TDY everywhere from Eilson(sp?) AFB in Alaska to Howard AFB in Panama. I have unit coins from my squadron, the Intelligence Wing at Kelly AFB, and Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC). (For the laymen - you only get unit coins if you’ve worked with that squadron, otherwise you’re not supposed to carry one. If anyone wants more info on unit coins let me know; besides IDing where you’ve been, they make for a great drinking game. Actually, **Rosie** should know what they are, you could ask her too) So what were you, RosieWolf? I can’t tell from the job description you give above. Where were you stationed, what was your job title, the information given earlier is all pretty vague. And just what in the name of Tampax does PMS have to do with not making it 20 years? It seems obvious you’ve never seen combat or you wouldn’t be so anxious to start a war. My grandfather was 1st Infantry Marine in Korea, my uncle was a helicopter gunner in the Army in VietNam. My father enlisted in the Navy before they could draft him and was a torpedoman on submarines, he was lucky and didn’t see combat. Ever see _Saving Privaste Ryan_? The beginning, when they charge Omaha Beach? That’s what my grandfather’s job was in the Marines. He’s seen his fair share of fighting. My mother says growing up, his screaming in the night would wake her. My whole life, he’s only talked about Korea once to me, and that’s because his platoon was featured on the Discovery channel when they were doing a show about some general. (The platoon was trapped 10 miles behind enemy lines and had to fight their way back). He’s seen war and has no desire to be anywhere near it again. My uncle admits to having nightmares to this day about Viet Nam; about killing children because if you let them get close to your platoon, they would set off the bomb strapped to their bodies and kill 4 or 5 of you. When I served, we invaded Haiti. I can’t give out details cuz much of it was classified when I got out, and I don’t know if it’s classified still or not, but no one I spoke to in Ft Bragg _wanted_ to fight. They fight because they have to, it’s their job, not because they _want_ to kill. Thankfully my job kept me well away from the front lines, while protecting those who were on the lines. You want a war? I wish you could be the first one on the beach to get a taste of the death you want so badly. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/159 "2000-10-16T15:53:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Anyway, your story again has a healthy dose Urban Legendism in it. Who took her into the woods? Who tortured her? > > If there is a union there, that implies some law and order, and whoever raped her could be punished. > > But if whoever did that to her could get away with it, then I can guarantee you that they could do the same to the Union, i.e. kill and torture the leaders etc. Therefore there would be no Union. Therefroe your story doesn’t make sense. \*\* More gasoline for the fire, I guess: I believe the incident Guin referred to is that of Vilma Cristina Gonzalez, who was abducted and raped on 27 March 1995: [http://www.scruz.net/~goyo/nisgua/rrn/96\_02\_29\_alert.html](http://www.scruz.net/~goyo/nisgua/rrn/96_02_29_alert.html) Ms. Gonzalez is the sister of Reynaldo Federico Gonzalez, the Secretary General of FESEBS (the Federation of Bank and Insurance Employees’ Unions). Mr Gonzalez was out of the country at the time, having received death threats himself. I haven’t the time to go into a long-winded dissertation about the atrocities committed in Guatemala during the 70’s and 80’s, but the government, a military dictatorshipa at the time, routinely lumped guerrillas, union organizers and indians demanding land rights as ‘communists’. Extra-military death squads kidnapped, murdered and raped their targets with impunity. Many thousands died, the majority at the hands of the death squads. Very few of those involved have been brought to justice. The US government, while publicly neutral, continued to provide the Guatemalan authorities with ‘non-combat’ military supplies, such as uniforms, during this period, while close ally Israel, among others, supplied weapons. More than once while traveling to the rig, I saw USAF-marked C-130’s unloading supplies on the military side of La Aurora airport. US-based companies continued to operate in the country throughout this period. While they may not have been vocal in support of the government, they paid business taxes that in part helped finance the death squads, and, in the case of the major oil company on whose project I worked, paid the army directly to construct a firebase protecting the rigs from guerrilla attack. To the best of my knowledge, the contingent of troops there was not involved in any atrocities, but they did burn at least two villages in the area in retaliation for guerilla actions elswhere in the region. But, whatever. That was all 15 years ago and none of it was any of our responsibilty…right? ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713/160 "2000-10-16T17:13:46Z")
> [@](#): > > I was a civilian employee for the Army during Desert Storm. Tell us again what your dates of service were? '75 to '85? Do you know what year the first troups were called up to Desert Storm? Desert Shield? I just checked my e-mail and did not find the information you claimed to have sent. If you truly are a 70 percent disabled vet, just send me your “C” number and I will be able to verify everything that you have claimed in this thread if in fact it is true. What disability(s) caused you to receive the 70%? What was the percentage granted each disability if more than one? Are you claiming PMS is a ratable disability? Can you tell me how many digits is in your “C” number? What are the first two? Do your dates of service move you into a bracket that switched your “C” number to your Social Security Number? Were you issued a Service Number or did they assign it as your Social Security Number? What VA benefits have you been entitled to because of your disability? What benefits are you not entitled to because you are not rated at 100 percent? Are you considered a war-time or peace-time vet? Why or why not? Anyone who made the claims you made would know the answer to every question I asked. So, can you answer? Forgive me if I think you are full of shit. I have been in this business long enough to know when something just isn’t sounding right. As I offered early, send me your “C” number to my e-mail address and I will verify everything from your service information to your claimed service connected disability. As promised before, I will not divulge any information other than to verify your words or to prove you to be a liar. I will not risk my career by posting any personal information obtained through a secure government system. If I don’t receive at least your “C” number in my e-mail before Wednesday, I will assume that you are a disgusting liar who is making claims that she is not entitled to make and disrespecting those disabled vets who truly have the right. So come on Rosie. . . . answer my questions and send the info, m’kay? Before everyone starts pouring on the respect and gratitude to this “disabled vet”, let’s first find out if she truly deserves what she is claiming. You should also be aware that not all disabled vets are receiving compensation for sacrificing themselves to the security of the Nation. There are many who have never seen any type of military action and who have been injured while on active duty for things such as crashing into a tree while drunk driving after a night at the NCO Club (this particular case was granted because of a discrepency with the blood alcohol level in his body when the accident was found hours later), injuring a knee while playing football, or just happening to be enlisted at the time a condition that would have shown up anyway is diagnosed (diabetes, cancer, heart condition, hysterectomy, etc.) A service connected disability does not necessarily mean blown off legs from land mines or blindness from hand granades. In fact, those types of conditions are growing more and more rare due to the WWII vets dying off and the peace-time vets outnumbering the Vietnam vets. So again, until Rosie’s claim is verified, you may want to consider directing your respect to someone who has actually earned the right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-war-dammit/36713.md?page=9)