# This is What Bugs Me About Books **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 3, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021 "2011-02-03T14:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/41 "2011-02-08T03:18:44Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > The absolute winner for lengthy footnotes has to be Sir Richard Burton. It’s most pronounced in his epic translation of **The Book of a Thousand Nights and a Night** , but it’s in his other works, too. The space taken up by the footnote is frequently greater than the “plain text” on the page. Considering that the footnote is in much smaller type, that means that the footnote can be an awful lot longer than the original text. But Burton fills his footnotes with such weird and fascinating information, ephemera, and asides that it’s hard to fault him for them. I have a set of books that are his addendum to the main set of 15 books. Lovely edition printed in america by the burton club. I love tangents and sidebars. Take away all the diversions from the Hitchhiker Guide book and you would remove the best bits. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/42 "2011-02-08T03:27:37Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I believe they are called “footnotes.” They can be safely ignored, unless you are reading **Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell** , in which case they are more important than the main text. Or the much earlier [Pale Fire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Fire). OP, don’t read any of the “Complete Idiot’s Guide” or “\_\_ for Dummies” books. They are full to the brim with the blurbs you hate. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/43 "2011-02-08T03:48:46Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Heh, both HG Wells and Verne have whole sections (Verne is worse, but I blame that on his being 19th century) where your average reader just skips to the end of the technical explanation. They were hell-bent on showing how the apparently-unrealistic technical parts or exotic geography were actually real. I do appreciate that they took the effort to do it, but damn does that cause some seriously huge walls of text. The thing to bear in mind is that, back in the 19th Century (and even the early 20th Century) most people really didn’t have much else in their homes to do entertainment-wise (No TV or even radio until the late 1920s), so details were important to the sort of people who liked to read books about the sort of stuff Wells and Verne and Conan-Doyle and Haggard et al were writing about. They’re still important to some readers (such as myself!) even nowadays. As for “Sidebars” in non-fiction books; I’m very fond of them. They’re useful “asides” IMHO. And if you’re having trouble working out how to read them, the advice I give people is this: Read the “Main” (ie non-Sidebar) text first, _then_ the Sidebars. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/44 "2011-02-08T03:58:11Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > As for “Sidebars” in non-fiction books; I’m very fond of them. They’re useful “asides” IMHO. And if you’re having trouble working out how to read them, the advice I give people is this: Read the “Main” (ie non-Sidebar) text first, _then_ the Sidebars. Every writer and book designer I know spends a lot of time thinking about exactly where sidebars should be placed. If we wanted them at the end of a chapter we would put them at the end of a chapter. If they make just as much sense not being read until the end of the text, then you shouldn’t have them in the first place, is my advice. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/45 "2011-02-08T04:15:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Every writer and book designer I know spends a lot of time thinking about exactly where sidebars should be placed. If we wanted them at the end of a chapter we would put them at the end of a chapter. If they make just as much sense not being read until the end of the text, then you shouldn’t have them in the first place, is my advice. My background experience here is in newspaper and magazine layout, and when I’m laying out a page, the Sidebars are always for exactly that- “Asides”, information that’s useful and interesting, but not the primary focus of the piece. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/46 "2011-02-08T06:10:54Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > I like to think of books as one of the most untainted forms of entertainment in the modern world. While other things (such as video games and movies and magazines) are buzzing with advertisements and product placement and making the next model even more snazzy and high-tech and distracting than the last version, books have been delightfully simple. You’ve obviously never seen an older paperback with an advertisement for cigarettes on a tear-out page in the middle of the book. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/47 "2011-02-08T12:40:54Z")
> [@](#): > > I guess we should be thankful they didn’t include the equations. In at least one case, Verne did – it’s in _Around the Moon_, the sequel (actually the essential second half of ) _From the Earth to the Moon_. Typically, it frequently gets reprinted incorrectly. Sometimes the equation actually is both important and relevant to a story. Fred Hoyle’s **the Black Cloud** includes one such example, and it shows how the character frames a question in his mind and develops it. For my part, I love these technical digressions. I’m an avid Verne fan (and wells fan), and actively seek out his books. I loved all the technical stuff in _Moby Dick_. Abridgement, to my way of thinking, _ruins_ that book. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/48 "2011-02-08T18:08:21Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > My background experience here is in newspaper and magazine layout, and when I’m laying out a page, the Sidebars are always for exactly that- “Asides”, information that’s useful and interesting, but not the primary focus of the piece. That’s probably true. But those are different fields and can’t - shouldn’t, anyway - be compared to books. Books don’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/49 "2011-02-08T18:31:10Z")
But sometimes you pretty much have to read the sidebar at the end. Or figure out for yourself where to interrupt the main text. If the main text just keeps going and the sidebar is above or off to the side but there’s no clear moment of when you stop reading the main text…then what do you do? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/50 "2011-02-08T18:34:45Z")
Aside: For an awesome use of footnotes, don’t miss the [Bartimaeus Trilogy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartimaeus_(book_series)). Assuming, of course, that you enjoy fantasy novels. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/51 "2011-02-08T18:42:48Z")
**Dr. Who** , did you see there’s a new one out? [http://www.amazon.com/Bartimaeus-Ring-Solomon-Jonathan-Stroud/dp/1423123727](http://www.amazon.com/Bartimaeus-Ring-Solomon-Jonathan-Stroud/dp/1423123727) 🙂 Ah, never mind, it’s covered in the article you linked. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/52 "2011-02-08T18:46:30Z")
If my memory serves, one book that handled the side bar issue well was the South Beach Diet book. Any diet book has to include success stories, so what the author did was include a success story at the end of each chapter. That way, the “side bar information” was worked into the text at a nice break point. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/53 "2011-02-08T19:17:26Z")
My wife and I, being imperfect beings and all that, like sidebars as well. While I have no problems with blocks of text, I like the added details that a well-placed and written sidebar can bring to a book. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/54 "2011-02-08T19:21:40Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > My wife and I, being imperfect beings and all that, like sidebars as well. While I have no problems with blocks of text, I like the added details that a well-placed and written sidebar can bring to a book. Out of curiosity, to you or anyone else who likes sidebars: How/when do you read them? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/55 "2011-02-08T20:00:02Z")
If it’s a footnote, likely when I come upon it or at the end of the paragraph (in my mind, I read the footnote like a parenthetical phrase - it’s actually a different voice in my head). If it’s a sidebar, then I read it sometime in the middle of the work, pretty much where the sidebar is placed. Again, it’s a different voice than the one that I hear in the main passage. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021/56 "2011-02-08T20:32:31Z")
If I get to a sidebar I read it. There may be times when I finish the paragraph on the next page and then turn back, but most of the time I read it whenever I get to it, or when it’s referred to in the text. Seriously, how else would you do it? Why would you do it otherwise? How would it take you out of the narrative so badly that you couldn’t follow it? How do you pick up the thread again when you put a book down? The narrative changes from paragraph to paragraph no matter what. Adding a sidebar shouldn’t damage that. I don’t remember a discussion about the difficulties of sidebars for readers before, so these questions are a serious request for information. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-bugs-me-about-books/570021.md?page=2)