# This Is What You Deserve When You Buy From The Big Boxes **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395 "2005-05-25T04:48:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/81 "2005-05-27T14:36:17Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Regarding my distaste for big boxes, it’s true, but I won’t resort to lies in an effort to build my case. Then to be fair I think you should acknowledge that your claim that the big boxes sell inferior versions of the same product is unsupported - or is that what you’re saying here. > [@danceswithcats](#): > > They do enough damage to themselves. Big boxes or lies? If lies, well, OK. If big boxes, what are you talking about? > [@danceswithcats](#): > > Regarding professionals being served first, we’re in business to make money. Our time is precious, which is why we should not have to wait for someone who wants a part for a piece of equipment for which they cannot name the make or model number. My time is precious, also. I’m in the business of making money, also. Apparently because my business is not specifically limited to plumbing, your time is more important than mine. You know something Mr. **Cats** the attitude of smug superiority is one of the things that gave the big boxes their market niche - and what a niche it has turned out to be. > [@danceswithcats](#): > > Home Despot makes a fraud of “Pro Checkout” when you stand behind some putz who says, “My kid will be here shortly-I sent him for duct tape. I forgot it.” I’ve been through the checkout lines in HD hundreds and hundreds of times and nothing like this has ever happened. Occasionally lines will back up due to the inexperience of the person at the register or some problem with the transaction, but not once have I ever had to wait while someone ran back to get something he forgot. Mr. \*\*Cats \*\* it’s obvious you don’t like HD and the other big boxes. I don’t know why but perhaps it’s because they treat you as just another customer and not some specially privileged case. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/82 "2005-05-27T16:00:12Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > I beg to differ. The Dollar Stores get exactly what they want. Cheap from the get-go shiite. In whatever color, style, and size they want. The stuff is designed from the start to be cheap and intended to be made for the dollar stores. There is no accident there. Maybe with the chain dollar stores, but with the small local dollar store chains and independents, I’ve seen lots of seconds; not clones intended to be cheap like Dualcell batteries and Suny clock radios, but name brand test products that didn’t were failures (Raspberry Dr. Pepper, Gerber Habanero baby food, etc), store brands from supermarket chains that aren’t in the region (Wegmans pop in California, Winn-Dixie corn flake cereal in Oregon, etc), and products intended for foreign markets (tubes of Crest labeled in Portuguese, Gilette disposable razors labeled in Hebrew, and so on.). ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/83 "2005-05-27T16:16:17Z")
I have always felt that the hair products marked “not guaranteed geniune unless sold from a pretentious boutique for an arm and a leg” are a huge ripoff. Why doesn’t Oscar Mayer put a notice on its Deviled Ham saying that they won’t guarantee it if you buy it from a COSTCO? > [@](#): > > I was just told that my brand of hair gel, American Crew, that is available at Target stores and salons is two different products when bought from one or the other source. One is watery and nasty, and the other is nice and thick-just the way I like it. So is Target selling counterfeit merchandise or does American Crew make Hair Gel for the salons and Hair Jel for Target? If the containers are identical, the product inside them should be identical. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/84 "2005-05-27T17:06:00Z")
Big Box verses Smaller Distributor I’m an electrician, so I’m always purchasing electrical supplies. The BB stores don’t have everything, but the stuff they do have is the same quality and cheaper than what the SD stocks, plus I get to choose the parts I need and want rather than have to tell the SD worker what I want and then he goes back and picks out what he thinks I need. I tend to be somewhat limited when I go to an SD that way. I get in and out of the BB quicker and with less of a hit to the pocket book. I have no problem getting electrical supplies through the BB as long as they have what I need. I would say they have 95% of the stuff I need on the average. Larger and specialty cables are the exception along with commercial service equipment. The BB usually has a much better return policy and procedure than the little guys. Getting credit and no interest payment schedules are not a problem with the BB either. They can be a hassle at a little shop. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/85 "2005-05-27T17:32:09Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Big Box verses Smaller Distributor > > I’m an electrician, so I’m always purchasing electrical supplies. The BB stores don’t have everything, but the stuff they do have is the same quality and cheaper than what the SD stocks, plus I get to choose the parts I need and want rather than have to tell the SD worker what I want and then he goes back and picks out what he thinks I need. I tend to be somewhat limited when I go to an SD that way. I get in and out of the BB quicker and with less of a hit to the pocket book. I have no problem getting electrical supplies through the BB as long as they have what I need. I would say they have 95% of the stuff I need on the average. Larger and specialty cables are the exception along with commercial service equipment. > The BB usually has a much better return policy and procedure than the little guys. > Getting credit and no interest payment schedules are not a problem with the BB either. They can be a hassle at a little shop. With respect to the OP, this is apples vs. oranges. As you and I both know, everything electrical has to meet UL standards and have a listing in the White Book, so it’s not possible for Square D to have two different standards of manufacture for QO panelboards, or AFC to have two grades of 12/3 MC Lite. Of the three electrical wholesalers with whom I have accounts, I can pick 70% of my own order, and if I want to look at something in the back, they have no problem. Pricing on most product is very close to that of the Big Box. I had no problem establishing a line of credit with the independent wholesalers. As far as returns and replacements, the last time I needed something, the call was something like, “Hey George, one of the globes on those Kichler fixtures I picked up the other day was broken in the box.” “No problem, I’ll get the replacement ordered today-if I rush it, day after tomorrow. Is that alright?” “Sure. Thanks, man.” Total phone time: 90 seconds, max. You ain’t gonna get that kind of service at the BB. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/86 "2005-05-27T17:46:52Z")
With regard to electrical fixtures: I have done a fair bit of home renovation recently, so have been buying a lot of light fixtures 9mainly from H-D). Anyway, most of the fixtures are now made in China, ands they are made incredibly cheaply! In fact, it really makes no sense to attempt to repair them-you just throw them out and buy a new one. I have also noticed that builders use the cheapest fixttures they can find…so where do you go to find a quality (made in the USA) light fixture? I’m not about to pay $150.00 for a piece of junk-i’d prefer something that will last. BTW-the Italian-made stuff is nice-but too damn pricey! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/87 "2005-05-27T18:50:25Z")
> [@](#): > > A corrolary to Example B. Retailer offers “Low Price Guarantee” or 110% back if you find a lower price. However, manufacturer provides otherwise identical products to different manufacturers that differ only in model number or name. Thus Sears sells the Kaputnick XL 2000 while Circuit City sells the exact same box as the Kaputnick Rocket IV. Sorry, different product – no refund. That was my impression of why there are differently-named yet essentially the same product lines at different retailers – so they can claim to have the “lowest” price! I certainly can’t discount the possibility of poorer quality parts for different product lines, but it would seem to me that in many cases it would be too expensive to organize two different manufacturing processes which, otherwise the same, carry different quality standards. It would seem to be cheaper to have the flexibility to ship to any retailer from any product line, assuming the products are otherwise identical, and to save the additional QA overhead in keeping the product lines to different standards and making sure they are always separated. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/88 "2005-05-27T19:00:12Z")
USA or not, you get what you pay for. The $8.00 light fixture is going to be just that. I don’t select fixtures based on the country of origin, so I can’t give you a list of fixtures or manufacturers to look at. I select the fixtures by how they feel and look. And to be honest, the customer selects and purchases most of the fixtures I install. I don’t really want to be burdened with the task of interior decorator. I do mostly commercial installations too. So the fixtures I install on the job aren’t likely to see their way into a home. The occasional home that I wire or the occasional light I replace or add at my own house are selected by feel and look. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/89 "2005-05-27T19:02:18Z")
Well the fact is, there are manufacturers who produce at the lowest level of quality possible. these are the guys whose products are always breaking, failing, and being returned for credit. Why to people buy this shit? Simple-price. The Big-Box stores have fed this movement toward crappy products, by discounting as well…so now you have (mostly) cheaply-made chines products taking over. And, at the level that this junk is made to 9and priced at), the manufactureres fully expect to get 1-5% returns-and its built into the pricing. So, H-D gets rich, the consumer gets ripped off, and the junkyards fill up (of course, that may we be an INTENDED side effect-the chinese buy junkyrad scrap to make MORE junky products with!) 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/90 "2005-05-27T19:35:11Z")
It may be a silly question at this stage in the thread, but i’ve seen a lot of comments to the effect that Chinese products are inherently inferior. Now certainly, I’ve seen the ‘made in China’ label on lots of low-end items, but is there any evidence that Chinese products are inferior to their counterparts from other countries? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/91 "2005-05-27T19:35:57Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve read a lot of unflattering articles about how Wal-Mart holds down prices, but I’ve never seen the claim that they coerce their manufacturers to produce a poorer version of an existing product line for only them. I cannot speak for toilets. I can speak for household goods as I work in the PS dept of a huge U.S. household goods manufacturer. And I can tell you with 100% certainty that the products that we sell in discount stores is the exact same stuff that you’ll find in other stores. Sometimes we package our products differently. For instance, we’ll offer a triple pack of 2.9 oz. (vs. our usual 2.7 oz) deodorants for sale in the warehouse clubs that you won’t be able to find in other stores. But if you see the “Deodorant X” label on it, you can be assured that “Deodorant X” is inside and not some cheapo imitation. Not only would it be legally dubious to attempt such a thing, to offer a downgraded version with the same name would ultimately be counter-productive to sales and degrade the brand image that we spend billions of dollars to promote. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/92 "2005-05-28T15:07:46Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > …On the surface it looks like the top quality line your name has been associated with, but your manufacting plant for this line is in another country, where you’re not paying union wages and benefits. Is there any evidence that shops paying union wages and benefits produce better quality products than ones that don’t? ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/93 "2005-05-28T16:39:32Z")
I don’t mess with plumbing if I can help it, but I can say with certainty that the fabric you buy at Wall Mart is inferior to that bought at fancy dancy quilting stores. It’s pretty much the exact same operating strategy at work as has been mentioned with electronics and plumbing. I’ve seen 100% cotton quilting fabric with distinct designs/patterns sold for $9.00 a yard at quilt stores such as Quilts Plus [http://www.quiltsplus.com/](http://www.quiltsplus.com/) and for $5.00 a yard at Wal-mart. The thread count is markedly different - to the point that you can almost see through the Wal-Mart fabric it’s so skimpy. I’ve never read the end of the bolt to see if there are different serial numbers or anything - but no doubt the goal of Wal-Mart is to give you the impression that you are getting the exact same fabric for $4.00 less when, in fact, you are getting tissue paper with the same color and design scheme. A Wal-mart quilt won’t last 5 years with normal use let alone generations. ---
**Author:** ![LionelHutz405](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lionelhutz405/32/536_2.png) [@LionelHutz405](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LionelHutz405)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/94 "2005-05-28T18:06:51Z")
How did you know the thread count was different? Did you count the threads? Or perhaps it was labeled with the thread count, making it absurd to think Walmart was trying to mislead in any way. Thread count _is_ the major difference and less means poorer quality and therefore cheaper price. Walmart was simply selling a lower quality fabric for a cheaper price. What is the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/95 "2005-05-30T15:22:34Z")
> [@LionelHutz405](#): > > How did you know the thread count was different? Did you count the threads? > > Or perhaps it was labeled with the thread count, making it absurd to think Walmart was trying to mislead in any way. Thread count _is_ the major difference and less means poorer quality and therefore cheaper price. Walmart was simply selling a lower quality fabric for a cheaper price. What is the problem? The “problem” if you will is that Wal-Mart and their ilk would have you believe that their prices are lower because they buy in bulk, have the best business model, are not unionized, etc. etc. The fact is they are not selling you the same stuff for less, they are selling you crap that should cost less for less. In many instances they trumpet how great their prices are for their rotten apples by comparing them to their competitors’ oranges. You can tell thread count by feeling the weight of the fabric, looking closely at the weave, and by holding it up to light. That gives a one a handle on thread count without actually counting. Once you take the fabric home and start sewing with it, you can tell the difference as well. I have no idea if actual thread count is even in the fine print at the end of a bolt, I’ve never looked. The unique problem with fabic is that there’s no readily visible brand name. So you can’t easily see that the, let’s say, blue mini-print with aqua highlights is made by Benetrix at a high end store and a seemingly identical fabric is made by Benitrax at Wal-Mart. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/96 "2005-05-30T21:26:52Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Do you have anything to back this up? I’m not saying you are incorrect, but I’ve never heard anything that supports this. It was the same thing with power tools and such when I worked in industrial distribution. Black & Decker, for example, used nickel steel ball bearings in drills we sold, whereas they used plastic bearings in drills sold by K-Mart. There was no deception involved. There had different catalog numbers, for example. Industrial tools were listed in a separate catalog from consumer tools. But there was good reason to do this. A weekend user (the typical consumer) could buy a drill very cheap, and it would likely have as long an overall life as the industrial drill that was used five days a week in a very demanding environment and cost a hundred dollars more. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/97 "2005-05-31T12:25:30Z")
Regarding the true spirit of the thread; We still haven’t managed to come up with any evidence that the same model/part/catalog number in two different stores will produce two varying levels of product quality in what appears to be the exact same product otherwise. We’ve got all manner of posters that have said that other stores appear to sell the same product with less quality for less money than the other high-end stores. This not the main concern. The main concern is whether or not the ‘exact’ same product is sold at two different levels, quality and price wise, on purpose and decietfully. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/98 "2005-05-31T12:58:39Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > The main concern is whether or not the ‘exact’ same product is sold at two different levels, quality and price wise, on purpose and decietfully. I’m with you on this. Unless someone can provide evidence of two products, sharing the exact same model number, being made differently based on who they are sold to, I’m not buying it. It goes against everything I’ve seen in the various industries I’ve worked in. Using the original premise as an example, I’d like to see something like: Item: Toilet Manufacturer: American Standard Model: CMT - 550 Joe’s Plumbing Suppliy’s model: Comes with stainless steel mounting screws. Home Depot’s model: Comes with plastic mounting screws. That’s the proposition being put forward, and we haven’t been provided any evidence to support it yet. I don’t think any of us are arguing that what Home Depot sells as American Standard’s top offering is the exact same thing as the top offering you might find in another outlet. What we are saying (some of us) is that we don’t believe the two are being sold with the same model numbers in these cases, which could cause even the most educated consumer to purchase a lesser quality product than their contractor would purchase. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/99 "2005-05-31T14:43:16Z")
**DMC** , U-turn capitol of the US? Lemme guess, Orlando-ish area? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395/100 "2005-06-01T03:19:35Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > **DMC** , U-turn capitol of the US? > Lemme guess, Orlando-ish area? Actually, New Orleans, although I need to update it, as I’ve since moved. The joke is that there is no such thing as a left turn in New Orleans. While it’s not completely true, there are a large number of places where the method to turn left is to either go straight through an intersection, U-Turn, then take a right, or to take a right, U-Turn, then go straight through the intersection. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a city with so few left turn lanes at major intersections. Combining that with the fact that you can get a Daquiri from a drive through window makes things a bit interesting. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-what-you-deserve-when-you-buy-from-the-big-boxes/305395.md?page=6)