# This Is Why I Don't Vote **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 17, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766 "2004-09-17T01:10:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/21 "2004-09-19T12:08:25Z")
> [@TellMeI'mNotCrazy](#): > > So you’re not upset that she’s not voting; you’re upset that she’s not voting for Kerry? Ahem, that should, of course, have said “Bush”. \ stupid early Sunday morning posts\ ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/22 "2004-09-19T16:37:48Z")
> [@TellMeI'mNotCrazy](#): > > I fully agree with the philosophy of “If you don’t vote, you automatically vote for the winner.” However, I have found myself wondering lately whether an uninformed voter is more harmful than a non-voter. Jury’s still out on that one. I hate to hijack the **Abbie** bashing, but I wanted to comment on this. The thing about ‘informed’ vs. ‘uninformed’ voting, is that there’s no real measure to determine whether or not someone is informed. I mean, some people vote for the guy who’s got the best hair. Certainly not criteria that IMO makes or breaks a presidential hopeful, but for some it is. And, so, they’re informed on the factor that matters to them. I like to think that I’m informed, but my knowledge is certainly limited. There are others who know a whole lot more than I about both Bush and Kerry; does that make me a dangerous voter? I don’t think so. The right to vote extends to people regardless of how often they read the NY Times or turn on the news in the evening. Imbicles and geniuses both have the right to representation. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/23 "2004-09-19T16:57:42Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > **I wish Abbie had been more vocal with the woman from the OP instead of just waiting to get to the Pit to call her an idiot.** > > If someone has decided NOT to vote and would otherwise vote for Kerry, I am not going to beg them to get to the polls. If they decide to on their own, great; I’ll even give 'em a ride. Other than that, I’m not breaking a sweat helping someone to cast a ballot for that liar. NEWS FLASH: Both of the candidates for the two major parties are full of shit. The important thing to concern ourselves with is the policies they will enact when they are in office. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/24 "2004-09-19T22:26:37Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Way to miss a point. > > Index this post. George W Bush will be declared the winner on November 3rd. It’s a lock. > > [http://electoral-vote.com/](http://electoral-vote.com/) Your link is in error. It should be [http://www.diebold.com/](http://www.diebold.com/) ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/25 "2004-09-19T22:41:46Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I hate to hijack the **Abbie** bashing, but I wanted to comment on this. > > The thing about ‘informed’ vs. ‘uninformed’ voting, is that there’s no real measure to determine whether or not someone is informed. I mean, some people vote for the guy who’s got the best hair. Certainly not criteria that IMO makes or breaks a presidential hopeful, but for some it is. And, so, they’re informed on the factor that matters to them. > > I like to think that I’m informed, but my knowledge is certainly limited. There are others who know a whole lot more than I about both Bush and Kerry; does that make me a dangerous voter? I don’t think so. The right to vote extends to people regardless of how often they read the NY Times or turn on the news in the evening. Imbicles and geniuses both have the right to representation. I agree; I certainly don’t think anyone should be deprived of their right to vote. If someone wants to vote for someone based on their hair style, eye color, or culinary expertise, far be it from me to suggest otherwise. I’m not calling for civics exams or anything. Like I said, the jury is still out (for me, I mean). I’m having a hard time trying to express exactly what I mean by informed voter; I guess I mean someone who is at least aware enough of the issues that this country faces, and votes with an eye towards resolving those issues - whatever their particular views of the issues and resolutions may be. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/26 "2004-09-19T23:46:00Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Your link is in error. It should be [http://www.diebold.com/](http://www.diebold.com/) Good to know that **rjung’s** tinfoil hat is still firmly anchored in place. What gets me is that the ultra-LLL’s actually believe that the _only_ way for Bush to win is by some sort of subterfuge. They keep drinking their own Kool-Aid. (If you hang around nothing but people with your opinions, you begin to believe that your opinions are the majority. Though they may be, you have no outside reference to be sure.) But don’t worry, **rjung,** if (when) Bush gets re-elected, you’ll get yours when the Dems attempt to impeach him over Abu-Graihb. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/27 "2004-09-20T00:35:02Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Way to miss a point. > > Index this post. George W Bush will be declared the winner on November 3rd. It’s a lock. > > [http://electoral-vote.com/](http://electoral-vote.com/) > > It’s been the same for a while now. 😉 I trust your false hope will make you feel better for a few more weeks. Just don’t melt down on us. No, you miss my point. I don’t know what the hell you’re raving on about. False hope? Melt down? My point was utterly non-partisan. My point was just a cynical dig at ALL politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/28 "2004-09-20T00:44:51Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Index this post. George W Bush will be declared the winner on November 3rd. It’s a lock. > > [http://electoral-vote.com/](http://electoral-vote.com/) > > It’s been the same for a while now. 😉 I trust your false hope will make you feel better for a few more weeks. Just don’t melt down on us. I just love it when the Bushlings think that nothing will change between now and the election. Polls, at their best, are only a reflection of the electorate at one particular point in time. If you believe they can predict what will happen in 6 weeks, you are more delusional than I thought you were. Still, it will be amusing to flog you with this ill-advised boasting as the polls wax and wane in the coming weeks. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/29 "2004-09-20T07:39:29Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > What gets me is that the ultra-LLL’s actually believe that the _only_ way for Bush to win is by some sort of subterfuge. Who says it’s the only way? As with any critical system, multiple redundant solutions should always be in place. Rigged election machines with known security problems and admitted partisan CEOs is merely one part of the plan. And if you truly believe the Republican Party _won’t_ resort to subterfuge to try and win the election, then you’re even dumber than I thought. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/30 "2004-09-20T15:25:35Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > …is merely one part of the plan. > > And if you truly believe the Republican Party _won’t_ resort to subterfuge to try and win the election, then you’re even dumber than I thought. Is this the Pit? Really? GOOD Oh. My. Fucking. God. I can’t believe they still allow you to post, **rjung**. You do NOT do credit to your side. “…merely one part of the plan.”??? Holy shit. Like there is a deliberate, conspiratorial plan in place to rig the election? Holy fucking hell. The REPUBLICANS didn’t hire _A THOUSAND FUCKING LAWYERS_ “just in case.” That sounds more to me like an attempt to shanghai the election through the courts rather than the electoral process to me - definitely underhanded! But… I don’t actually think the Dems are planning that. I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt. Of course, if it’s a really close election, and the hired lawyers start tying up all kinds of state results in the courts, then I might change my opinion… Sheesh… (folks, does he REALLY believe this conspiracy shit??) ---
**Author:** ![Zog\_10](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c57346/32.png) [@Zog\_10](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zog_10)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/31 "2004-09-20T15:26:03Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I was just about to agree with the OP until I read this part of your statement: > > > [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > > > Sure, you have the right not to vote. But I don’t want to hear any bitching for the next 4 years. > > Is she giving up her right to complain about the government by not voting? I don’t think so. If that were true, then people who vote for the person elected would certainly not have any room to complain. Yes, yes she is. Not in any legal or binding sort of way, but in a philospohical one. If people can’t be bothered to exercise their ability to make their preferences known, then they really should shut up when things don’t go their way. And the issue is not whether they voted for the person they want to complain about - it’s **whether they particpated in the process at all.** > [@Zoe](#): > > I wish people didn’t take the right to vote for granted either – especially when that right was hard won. But they still have a right (some consider it a duty) to speak up when they think what their elected officials are doing is wrong. Yes, they have a right/duty to speak up when they think something is wrong in Denmark. However, it undercuts their position when they don’t/didn’t take the steps to prevent such wrongdoing from occuring in the first place. And if they really feel strongly about it, they should take more active steps (i.e. joining a campaign, writing letters, campaigning themselves, etc.). That’s what the democratic system is about - not just sitting around bitching and moaning about the state of affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/32 "2004-09-20T15:44:58Z")
**Zog\_10** , just because it annoys you doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do it (complain, that is). ‘Participating in the process’ is well and good, but that process also is in place to allow all people to have a voice, both in the polls and out in the world. Saying that not participating forfeits one’s right to complain does nothing but strangle political speach. And, since we all benefit from political speach and we all benefit from the fact that everyone is allowed to criticize the government, I think your idea that philosophically one shouldn’t speak out is fatally flawed. I don’t know who all here on the boards voted last election, for example, but I’d say that despite a lot of junk many of us have benefited by political discussion here, regardless of the voting status of the members. And, the mere fact that they exercise their right to criticize the government helps to reinforce that right. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/33 "2004-09-20T15:51:33Z")
> [@TellMeI'mNotCrazy](#): > > If someone wants to vote for someone based on their hair style, eye color, or culinary expertise, far be it from me to suggest otherwise. I’m not calling for civics exams or anything. I am. What fucking idiot votes for a guy on his hair? I know these people are out there. We need to find them and remove them from the decision making process. ---
**Author:** ![PussyCow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@PussyCow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PussyCow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/34 "2004-09-20T16:04:27Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > **Zog\_10** , just because it annoys you doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do it (complain, that is). > > ‘Participating in the process’ is well and good, but that process also is in place to allow all people to have a voice, both in the polls and out in the world. Saying that not participating forfeits one’s right to complain does nothing but strangle political speach. And, since we all benefit from political speach and we all benefit from the fact that everyone is allowed to criticize the government, I think your idea that philosophically one shouldn’t speak out is fatally flawed. As much as I urge everyone to get out there and vote, I feel it should be recognized that it is every American’s right to **not** vote as well. This is the beauty of our nation. We can vote or not vote and we can speak freely about politics whether we participate in them or not. If you wanted to take it to another logical level, a person should not critize whether we go to war or how our troops behave there unless we have participated by sacrificing our lives in the war as well. And one further, should we not have a political opinion unless we work as a politician? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/35 "2004-09-20T16:30:20Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Your link is in error. It should be [http://www.diebold.com/](http://www.diebold.com/) Nothing to add here, this just cracked me up. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/36 "2004-09-20T16:38:22Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > What gets me is that the ultra-LLL’s actually believe that the _only_ way for Bush to win is by some sort of subterfuge. They keep drinking their own Kool-Aid. (If you hang around nothing but people with your opinions, you begin to believe that your opinions are the majority. Though they may be, you have no outside reference to be sure.) I don’t consider myself an ultra lib, just someone who isn’t getting suckered, but I’ll say this, our track record at predicting the future is better then yours. Pretty much everything we’d predicted _long before we invaded_ has come true. We knew the would use 9/11 to go after Iraq. We knew they were _lying_ about WMD. We knew that the people of Iraq weren’t going to welcome us as liberators. We knew this was going to drag into a long moneypit shitstorm. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/37 "2004-09-20T17:08:26Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > Holy fucking hell. The REPUBLICANS didn’t hire _A THOUSAND FUCKING LAWYERS_ “just in case.” [They’re working on it:](http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB109539200666220643,00.html?mod=todays_free_feature) > [@](#): > > \*\*THE WALL STREET JOURNAL > \*\*_September 17, 2004_ > Six weeks before Election Day, the two major political parties are skirmishing over election laws, practices and vote counts while building up war chests and hiring platoons of lawyers for a possible replay of the 2000 recount battle. > > Already, a judge in New Mexico has rejected Republican efforts to require some voters to bring identification to the polls, while Democrats in Missouri are trying to quash a law they claim would keep some votes from being counted. Democratic Sen. John Kerry’s campaign has asked the Federal Election Commission for guidance on funding a recount operation under the 2002 law overhauling campaign-finance rules. And both parties have lined up special teams of lawyers in at least five pivotal states to be ready to conduct recount fights. > > [snip] > > The Bush-Cheney campaign also is building a pre-emptive legal team. Recruiters were dispatched from Washington early this summer to assess legal teams being organized by state-party officials in the swing states. > > Some Republican party activists estimate that roughly **30,000 precincts** in battleground states will be targeted by their party, which has an aggressive legal recruitment program that “is in its initial stages,” says one insider. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/38 "2004-09-20T17:18:59Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > [They’re working on it:](http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB109539200666220643,00.html?mod=todays_free_feature) Ugh, this is going to get sooooooo bad. ---
**Author:** ![Zog\_10](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c57346/32.png) [@Zog\_10](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zog_10)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/39 "2004-09-20T17:49:38Z")
Let me clarify what I meant then. I feel that it is a little [strange/hypocritical/backwards] to criticize a politician or political situation if one did not participate in the process that brought the situation about. That is, if there is a politician or a propositon or whatever that I disagree with, then I should exercise my right and vote against it/them. I do not mean that if you don’t vote you somehow actually or legally forfeit your right to offer oipinions and particpate in the political process. I just feel that voting is an important part of that process and to fail to exercise it undermines in some way any further commentary one might make. To not do so and then later complain seems silly to me. “I don’t like George W. Bush but I didn’t vote in the last election”\* Well, why not? If you don’t like Bush, then vote against him. If you don’t like either candidate, vote for a third party. I’ll grant that often (especially in National elections) it feels like you’re choosing between two evils, and not voting _for_ a candidate you agree with. Which of course makes it harder to choose when neither candidate appeals. \*Bush used as an example only. Not meant to indicate party affiliation. ---
**Author:** ![hlanelee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@hlanelee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hlanelee)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766/40 "2004-09-20T18:02:07Z")
Someone correct me if I’m wrong and, unfortunatly, sometimes that happens, but didn’t the majority of the people that voted in the 2000 Presidential Election actually vote for Al Gore. Someone tell me voting is more than a TOKEN priviledge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-dont-vote/264766.md?page=3)