# This is why I hate going to the doctor **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253 "2014-08-22T23:46:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![7e42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/51bf81/32.png) [@7e42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7e42)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/61 "2014-08-23T04:36:31Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > Wait-did you even try the tylenol? Or did you assume that since it didn’t work for your headache it wouldn’t work for knee pain? If you are saying that you didn’t even try your doctor’s advice, then how can you say she didn’t help you? As far as why they get paid-would you pay a lawyer who represented you if you lost the case? > > And because I am in that kind of mood, I’ll close with a quote frequently attributed to Voltaire, although others claim it was written by Ben Jonson: > > \*“The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” \* Tylenol has always bee known as fraudulent medicine so when she mentioned it I was not impressed ---
**Author:** ![7e42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/51bf81/32.png) [@7e42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7e42)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/62 "2014-08-23T04:38:07Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > I’ve seen mention that it elevates symptoms but not that it cures. > Do you have a reputable citation for that? elevates what symptons? ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/63 "2014-08-23T04:39:16Z")
I am intrigued by this. Why is Tylenol “fraudulent”? You state it has always been known as fraudulent. By whom? Do you have any cites for this? In my (educated) opinion, Tylenol is underrated as a painkiller. While it does not have anti-inflammatory effects, it does relieve pain quite effectively in empiric studies. ---
**Author:** ![7e42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/51bf81/32.png) [@7e42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7e42)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/64 "2014-08-23T04:40:35Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > I am intrigued by this. Why is Tylenol “fraudulent”? You state it has always been known as fraudulent. By whom? Do you have any cites for this? In my (educated) opinion, Tylenol is underrated as a painkiller. While it does not have anti-inflammatory effects, it does relieve pain quite effectively in empiric studies. Ibuprofen was always more effective for joint pain than Tylenol before I discovered Fish Oil ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/65 "2014-08-23T04:41:50Z")
> [@7e42](#): > > elevates what symptons? alleviates (damn spell checker, I should turn it off) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/66 "2014-08-23T04:42:27Z")
To be fair, Medscape’s abstract suggests fish oil for rheumatoid arthritis, though this is in a drug abstract, not linked to a study. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/67 "2014-08-23T04:43:34Z")
> [@7e42](#): > > Ibuprofen was always more effective for joint pain than Tylenol before I discovered Fish Oil That in no way means it has always been know to be fraudulent medicine. Just because it didn’t prove effective for you doesn’t mean it’s not effective for others. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/68 "2014-08-23T04:44:39Z")
> [@susan](#): > > To be fair, Medscape’s abstract suggests fish oil for rheumatoid arthritis, though this is in a drug abstract, not linked to a study. Oh I’ve heard of it being used to treat symptoms, I’ve never heard of it as a cure, at least not from a reputable source. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/69 "2014-08-23T04:46:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Ibuprofen was always more effective for joint pain than Tylenol before I discovered Fish Oil This may be because you had some inflammation. As noted, Tylenol is a painkiller but not an anti-inflammatory, while ibuprofen is both. Since osteoarthritis is not an inflammatory process, the anti-inflammatory effect is not necessary. Regardless, I am happy that your pain is gone but forgive me if I don’t base my medical practice on anecdotal reports. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/70 "2014-08-23T05:16:28Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > Finally, remember that doctors cannot cure anything or even most things. We can make diagnoses and treat but the vast majority of conditions are only controllable, not curable. Quite a few things, however, are preventable, and that’s where the modern medicine machine often fails. About a year or two after I started swimming daily, I came down with an ear infection. The only recourse was to go to a clinic, get a diagnosis, and a prescription for antibiotic ear drops. A few months later, it happened again. I went back to the same student clinic (on the Berkeley campus), went through the same process to get antibiotic ear drops. Then maybe a year later, it happened a third time, and a did it all again. But this time, when I got the ear drops at the pharmacy, I for some reason or another mentioned to the pharmacist that this happened to me because of swimming. “Oh,” he said, “Then what you should do is squirt some gin or something into your ear after you swim. Or just some rubbing alcohol. It gets the water to break up and evaporate, so an infection can’t set in.” I’ve been swimming, and doing what he suggested, for almost twenty years now, and have never had an infection since. Now, why didn’t one of those doctors tell me about this simple, cheap, easy DIY solution to prevent an ear infection from swimming? They all new that the infection was because of swimming, but none of them had the slightest interest in keeping the problem from happening again. This epitomizes for me a fundamental problem with healthcare here. It’s less about health and more about just reacting to health problems. Of course, this isn’t what the OP is talking about, which is more of just an unrealistic expectation from doctors. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/71 "2014-08-23T05:23:08Z")
> [@7e42](#): > > Fish Oil cures Arthritis not Panncreatis Really? No it doesn’t. Some strange alignment of forces may be helping you but fish oil is not a cure. ---
**Author:** ![7e42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/51bf81/32.png) [@7e42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7e42)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/72 "2014-08-23T05:26:34Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > Really? No it doesn’t. Some strange alignment of forces may be helping you but fish oil is not a cure. in 2013 I could not wake up without being in pain, my hip pain and knee pain caused me to struggle to get out of a chair I was introduced to Fish Oil in January and now I can pop out of a chair, run for trains, and don’t have to put ice on my knees every morning before I get ready for work Sounds like a cure to me ---
**Author:** ![JayRx1981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@JayRx1981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayRx1981)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/73 "2014-08-23T06:02:38Z")
> [@7e42](#): > > Tylenol has always bee known as fraudulent medicine so when she mentioned it I was not impressed Always been known by whom, exactly? Certainly not by physicians, although you clearly mistrust them, nor by PhD’s who have studied (and are continuing to study) the pain relieving effects of Acetyl-para-aminophenol (Acetaminophen/Paracetamol), though I suspect you probably also mistrust them, nor by pharmacists, nurses, or the general lay audience who have done any reading on the subject. This is not to say, of course, that Acetaminophen will work for everyone or even all types of pain. Given the current suspected mechanism of action for the drug, there are several points of a failure which could render the drug less effective or altogether ineffective in any given individual. For those interested, here is at least one suspected mechanism for it’s effects, and I’ll even note the potential failure points I can see with an asterisk: Upon absorption from the GI tract, a portion of the acetaminophen undergoes what we term first-pass metabolism. A portion of this is believed to get it’s acetyl group clipped off\* resulting in the formation of an aminophenol. Some of this chemical then enters systemic circulation, eventually reaching the blood brain barrier and the brain itself. In the brain, an enzyme called Fatty Acid Amide Hydrolase, normally involved in both the formation and breakdown of endogenous cannabinoid/vanilloid ligands (anandamide and 2-arachidonoyl-glycerol), takes one of the precursors to the ligands I just mentioned, arachidonic acid, and sticks it to the aminophenol\*, forming a compound that we shorthand to AM404. AM404 then activates a receptor which we shorthand name (because the long name is quite the mouthful) TRPV1. Activation of this receptor then serves to deactivate another type of ion channel, known as a T-Type calcium channel\*. Deactivation of this type of channel then serves to disinhibit descending serotonergic (serotonin releasing) neurons (this part is fuzzy in my memory)\* which results in the relief of pain. ---
**Author:** ![7e42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/51bf81/32.png) [@7e42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7e42)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/74 "2014-08-23T06:07:17Z")
> [@PorchePine](#): > > But fish pills are fine? Fish Oil are not pain pills, they are vitamins ---
**Author:** ![7e42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/51bf81/32.png) [@7e42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7e42)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/75 "2014-08-23T06:09:50Z")
In addition to eliminating joint pain, Fish Oil also 1. reduces heart disease 2. maintains healthy blood pressure ---
**Author:** ![JayRx1981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@JayRx1981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayRx1981)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/76 "2014-08-23T06:56:28Z")
> [@7e42](#): > > Fish Oil are not pain pills, they are vitamins The term you probably are looking for there is “supplements”, not vitamins. Fish Oil is a collection of several different monounsaturated fats, which are technically food/calorie sources, not vitamins. > [@7e42](#): > > In addition to eliminating joint pain, Fish Oil also > > 1. reduces heart disease > > 2. maintains healthy blood pressure Both effects are currently clinically questionable, at best, according to current American Heart Association/American College of Cardiology guidelines on the prevention of Athersclerotic Cardiovascular disease. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/77 "2014-08-23T07:09:38Z")
Oh cripes. I don’t know if the OP is even worth arguing with. Fish oil pills are not vitamins. They are “supplements,” which is a totally meaningless term. I realize it’s easy to mistake for “vitamins,” but it’s not the same thing. [Post hoc, ergo propter hoc logical fallacy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc) [Regression to the mean](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean): relevant because people tend to visit the doctor when symptoms like pain are at their worst, and therefore after some time passes, symptoms regress, so whatever was done, whether it was prescribed by the doctor or not (or, if the person went to a homeopath, chiropractor, etc., whatever fairy water was “prescribed”) tends to be credited with the improvement whether it had any effect or not. I have two cousins who are doctors, and a husband who works in a hospital lab. Being a doctor is becoming a thankless job. While I have yet to meet a doctor who struggles at the poverty line, it’s not the gravy train people think it is, especially since people spend years paying off huge student loans, and then if they go into private practice, overhead along with insurance is where most of the money goes. Also, a lot of what the patient pays for is lab tests, and the salaries of all the people who work in the office. Also, OTC medicine is medicine. Just because you didn’t walk out with a prescription doesn’t mean you got nothing. My mother used to goad my doctor into an antibiotic Rx every time I had the sniffles, and now I’m allergic to a lot of them (antibiotics, not sniffles)-- back then, I don’t think people understood about creating antibiotic resistant strains of diseases, or allergies by overuse, and I’m not mad at the doctor-- my mother can be both annoying and persuasive. More: not only is a doctor not a mechanic, you are not a car. Talk to the doctor. Go back if the first thing doesn’t work. I don’t know about the OP’s doc (or psychobunny) but my doc doesn’t charge for a second office visit for the same issue in a short span of time-- if I have a positive strep test, she gives me an antibiotic, and then, for example, I get a rash, so two days later, I go back to see if the rash is either related to the infection, or a reaction to the antibiotic, I don’t get charged again. My cousin who is a GP wants to do well-patient care, so he give a 10% discount off office visits to all his regular patients who get yearly physicals. My other cousin who is an orthopod does a lot of pro bono work with kids (that just means she donates time, though, but then she spends more time fundraising for kids whose families can’t even pay for medicines, or casts and braces, and time in the hospital). I’m sure there are unscrupulous doctors. There are unscrupulous people in every profession. I know unscrupulous sign language interpreters, and unscrupulous shoe store managers, even one unscrupulous rabbi. But I know lots of doctors, and the ones I know work hard, and keep loyal patient bases. Psychobunny writes reasoned and clear posts, in contrast to pretty much everyone who has posted an anti-medicine screed. On that note, I’ll shut up now. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/78 "2014-08-23T07:25:40Z")
> [@7e42](#): > > They get paid nice money to > > 1. Tell you what you don’t want to hear > > 2. Tell you they don’t know what your medical issue is or what caused it > > I had joint pain in the knees and hip and could not walk at all and was very concerned. Do you know this dumb doctor suggested I get some Tylenol??? Is that her idea of resolving a issue a patient has? I had to find my own solution to the knee and hip pain which turned out to be FISH OIL. So again what the hell is the purpose of a doctor? To take money out of your account and tell you they don’t know what’s wrong with you? I know this one person was getting dizzy and passing out and almost got into a accident. The Doctor and no idea what was going on and thought it was nothing.It turn out the person had brain tumor. Other person head pain. Doctors have no idea.Think it is nothing. Other person cold joints and pain.The doctor saying in all my years being doctor you the first with that case.No idea why that is the case. Has for being dumb? In my experience a book smart doctor does not mean smart logic.You could go to school passing of 99% with medical books of 10,000 pages does not = smart logic. Some doctors like to get to cause of the problems and other doctors down play problems and oly investegate it when problems get worse. Also family doctors , medical clinics /medical walk in clinics and ER are the worse for \*\*\*non specific problems cases \*\*\*because of the assembly line of people waiting to see the doctor and lack of knowledge.Most of these cases you need to work with specialists not family doctor , medical clinics /medical walk in clinics and ER. If you have pain in hip or knee you need a bone specialist. Many cases with out MRI ,CT scan ,biopsy ,blood work and other tests a doctor has no idea wht is going on in side you.Some Insurance companies and state run heathcare doctors will down play MRI ,CT scan ,biopsy ,blood work to keep costs down. I’m sorry to we have working medical tricorder this is the type of problems people will have. Unless you get good family doctor that never down plays any thing and cautious this is the healthcare you going to get. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/79 "2014-08-23T07:46:24Z")
I’ll see your anecdote, and raise you: I once got very dizzy, to the point that I felt like I couldn’t walk, and I had some nausea. It came on suddenly. It was a Saturday night, so I went to the ER, because I was very worried. I got a bad headache while I was waiting. It got to be really, really bad, and I thought I might pass out. I told the nurse, and so they sent me right back, because there was the possibility of something like an aneurysm, however unlikely. I had no fever, so no one suspected an infection. However, after an exam, the doctor correctly diagnosed an inner ear infection. I had no upper respiratory symptoms, like a person might get with a more common middle ear infection. I got some Tylenol with codeine for the headache, some nausea medicine, and an antibiotic. In 24 hours, I felt fine, although I know to finish all of an antibiotic. I also went to my regular doctor for follow-up on Monday, who said I looked fine. Because I get migraines that affect my vision sometimes, I had actually had had a head CT about 3 years earlier, so a tumor was pretty unlikely, because nothing was noted then, but at any rate, this was 23 years ago, and I’m fine. I even had another inner ear infection about 10 years ago, and recognized the symptoms, so I was able to go to the doctor and say “This is just like the inner ear infection I had before,” so she could look for that first. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253/80 "2014-08-23T07:47:58Z")
> [@7e42](#): > > Yes, plus after a period of time you don’t have to take them at all. Remember I said Fish Oil cures Arthritis? > I could tell by the way I was running for the train last week. I was flying Fish oil doesn’t cure arthritis. You just made that up. Disagree? Then show us some proof. Put up, or shut up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-i-hate-going-to-the-doctor/696253.md?page=5)