# This is why people hate bicyclists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582 "2014-04-07T19:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/81 "2014-04-09T14:50:46Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Wellnow here’s the thing. You make some assumptions about awareness in a car (which could be construed as pretty disparaging and superior), but you really don’t know how aware I am as a motorist. > > As a cyclist, I absolutely believe you when you say that you’re careful and alert and aware. I ride like everyone’s out to get me, and I try my best to be as aware of my surroundings as possible. You say you’re safe and not an idiot, and I believe you. > > But…as a motorist _I have no way of knowing that._ All I see is you ignoring stop signs. Or pushing a yellow. Or jackrabbiting a green. _You’re_ doing so safely, but I have no way of knowing. You acknowledge that it looks like you’re not paying attention…how can I be expected to read your mind and know that you really are? > > Crappy, sloppy, dangerous cyclists are the exception, not the norm, especially in PDX. And assuming all cyclists are dangerous based on a small sample of idiots is lazy thinking and egregious confirmation bias. But the stakes are pretty fucking high–when I almost nail some idiot because he cuts across my grill without signalling, I get freaked out. I don’t want to kill you, and I don’t want to have to clean chunks of Bacchetta and leg out of my wheel wells. You’re _probably_ not an idiot, even though you sometimes ignore traffic laws. But how can I know for sure? > . Ahh…yes because all cars signal, stop at yellows and don’t run stop signs. Wait the VAST MAJORITY of cars speed up at yellows and don’t stop at stop signs (especially when there is no other traffic) How about you quit making moral judgements about the actions of others who you view as not being in the same group as you. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/82 "2014-04-09T14:50:59Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > It means (for example) to assume that the driver coming towards you is going to make an unannounced left turn in front of you, as if you weren’t there. I assume that is true whether I’m riding a bike or driving a car. I live in Boston. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/83 "2014-04-09T14:55:44Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Ahh…yes because all cars signal, stop at yellows and don’t run stop signs. Where did I say they didn’t? > [@](#): > > Wait the VAST MAJORITY of cars speed up at yellows and don’t stop at stop signs (especially when there is no other traffic) While I don’t necessarily disagree…cite? > [@](#): > > How about you quit making moral judgements about the actions of others who you view as not being in the same group as you. Please explain where I made any moral judgment? While you’re at it, please explain what group I’m not a part of that I’m casting aspersions upon? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/84 "2014-04-09T14:59:07Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Where did I say they didn’t? > While I don’t necessarily disagree…cite? WARNING PDF [http://azbikelaw.org/cases/stopsigns/Feest1968.pdf](http://azbikelaw.org/cases/stopsigns/Feest1968.pdf) Note how only 15% fully stopped when there was no cross traffic. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/85 "2014-04-09T15:12:39Z")
Here is a study of a residential T intersection over several years where only 1% of cars made a full legal stop. [http://www.amsciepub.com/doi/abs/10.2466/pms.1997.85.1.217](http://www.amsciepub.com/doi/abs/10.2466/pms.1997.85.1.217) And here is another with 6% compliance with the law. [http://www.amsciepub.com/doi/abs/10.2466/pms.1999.89.3f.1193](http://www.amsciepub.com/doi/abs/10.2466/pms.1999.89.3f.1193) This is not a mode of transportation issue, it is human behavior. The only reason ANY of this is ascribed to “cagers” or “motorcyclists” or “bicyclists” is the fundamental attribution error. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/86 "2014-04-09T15:16:48Z")
I’m sure there’s research more recent than 1968, and not limited to SoCal. Since I’m interested now I’ll do my own research later on today. As I said, I don’t disagree with your assertion…but “VAST MAJORITY” is a pretty ballsy claim, and I’d like to see some decent research on the numbers. ETA: Thanks, those are awesome. I’ll read them in a bit. Please bear in mind that I have made no attribution errors. How about my other questions for you? ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/87 "2014-04-09T15:23:29Z")
Just to go off topic a bit, but the funny thing is I do a full stop when I’m mostly alone, and a rolling stop when there are other motorists at the stop signs. Why? Because none of them do a full stop! So when I come to a full stop they get utterly confused as to who gets legal right of way (“Is something wrong?! They stopped all the way!!”) and we end up with 3 or 4 cars all waving their hands at each other to go first and doing the start-stop jerk. They’re not being polite, it’s that it seems literally nobody else knows what to do when there are two cars stopped at a stop sign at the same time. I’ve also had people get to a stop sign before me, going straight, stop completely and wave me through even though I arrived after them AND I’m turning (with my signal on). What the hell, guys. The three or four way stop is not this hard to understand. If I do a rolling stop like them, and go right on time for my legal right of way instead of taking the extra half second to stop fully, we don’t end in one big circlejerk. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/88 "2014-04-09T16:03:00Z")
So the question was: Why would anyone try (badly) to do a trackstand instead of just putting his foot down? And the answer, apparently, is: Well, cars roll through stop signs!! ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/89 "2014-04-09T16:05:03Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Thank you, Paul Ryan. Well, that escalated quickly. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/90 "2014-04-09T16:06:55Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > So the question was: Why would anyone try (badly) to do a trackstand instead of just putting his foot down? > > And the answer, apparently, is: Well, cars roll through stop signs!! Next question: Why does the act of badly trackstanding make some people so irate they need to create a pitting? And the answer, apparently, is: I hate bicyclists so much I have to come up with new ways to hate!! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/91 "2014-04-09T16:21:08Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > So the question was: Why would anyone try (badly) to do a trackstand instead of just putting his foot down? > > And the answer, apparently, is: Well, cars roll through stop signs!! 1. You haven’t established that he was doing a trackstand badly, all trackstands involve some moving around. Based on what you’ve written in this thread, I don’t have a lot of faith in your observations here. 2. You’ve ignored the other answers given in this thread because they don’t fit in your worldview, apparently. Cars violating all sorts of traffic laws is a related issue but not central to why bikers do trackstands. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/92 "2014-04-09T16:23:14Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Next question: Why does the act of badly trackstanding make some people so irate they need to create a pitting? > > And the answer, apparently, is: I hate bicyclists so much I have to come up with new ways to hate!! You got me. It’s a fair cop. I’m busted. What I thought was mild ire at unsafe behavior in traffic has actually opened a window into the dark and pitted recesses of the blackness of my soul, exposing it to be nothing but a cauldron of rage and fury. Now that I’ve seen myself as others see me, I shall devote my life to meditation and good works. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/93 "2014-04-09T16:32:51Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > You got me. It’s a fair cop. I’m busted. > > What I thought was mild ire at unsafe behavior in traffic has actually opened a window into the dark and pitted recesses of the blackness of my soul, exposing it to be nothing but a cauldron of rage and fury. > > Now that I’ve seen myself as others see me, I shall devote my life to meditation and good works. > > Thank you. Your blood pressure thanks you! 🙂 Lord knows I need more biking and meditation! ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/94 "2014-04-09T16:44:54Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > So the question was: Why would anyone try (badly) to do a trackstand instead of just putting his foot down? > > And the answer, apparently, is: Well, cars roll through stop signs!! No, when you roll through stop signs you have a “reason” but when bikers do something that is merely annoying to you it is a moral failing on their part. Have you ever considered that doing track stands takes a lot of skill and practice…Even if he was slightly wobbly the rider will only get better by practicing. Excuse the bike rider for not just coasting through life, content will mediocrity. It is such a jerk move for them to force you to watch them trackstand. I am sure you should contact a lawyer and get compensation for your emotional damage. Or you could continue hating others due to your own issues…that may be easier, and according to your posts that sounds like your prefered way anyhoo. And lucky for you hate is easy too. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/95 "2014-04-09T16:45:36Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > So the question was: Why would anyone try (badly) to do a trackstand instead of just putting his foot down? > > And the answer, apparently, is: Well, cars roll through stop signs!! Wow. You are completely not reading any answers you don’t like. Try starting a bike with your foot down. It is slower and harder than starting while trackstanding. You ignored that logic because you feel people on bikes should want that extra difficulty because they are out exercising. You don’t like that reason, but it is still a reason. **Macca26** gave you another reason. You probably don’t like that one, either. Yet another reason is that sometimes it can be difficult to clip back in. Not always, and with proper cleats it isn’t, but for the particular cyclist you saw maybe it was. Another reason you can ignore if you want. Feel free to stand by your argument it is somehow a danger to pedestrians, drivers and the biker himself, but even if that were true (it isn’t), that doesn’t mean no reasons were provided. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/96 "2014-04-09T17:20:45Z")
I don’t _hate_ “bicyclists”. It does sound little weird to me, though. What’s wrong with “cyclists”? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/97 "2014-04-09T17:34:55Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Excuse the bike rider for not just coasting through life, content will mediocrity. It is such a jerk move for them to force you to watch them trackstand. I am sure you should contact a lawyer and get compensation for your emotional damage… Wow, how’s the view from up there on the moral high ground? As with most disputes, once we eliminate the silliness and the name-calling, this probably comes down to assumptions and definitions. If a cyclist can do a trackstand well enough to remain within the lines of the bike lane, then more power to him. If he thinks that is easier than putting his foot down, then who am I to argue, and I certainly don’t care. If he’s inept enough that he can’t stay in the lines, though, and wobbles into the traffic lane, then he’s a danger to himself and to others. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/98 "2014-04-09T17:37:43Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I don’t _hate_ “bicyclists”. It does sound little weird to me, though. What’s wrong with “cyclists”? Well I’m fine with bicyclists and tricyclists myself, _but don’t get me started on unicyclists!!_ ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/99 "2014-04-09T17:47:59Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > No, when you roll through stop signs you have a “reason” but when bikers do something that is merely annoying to you it is a moral failing on their part. > > Have you ever considered that doing track stands takes a lot of skill and practice…Even if he was slightly wobbly the rider will only get better by practicing. > > Excuse the bike rider for not just coasting through life, content will mediocrity. It is such a jerk move for them to force you to watch them trackstand. I am sure you should contact a lawyer and get compensation for your emotional damage. > > Or you could continue hating others due to your own issues…that may be easier, and according to your posts that sounds like your prefered way anyhoo. > > And lucky for you hate is easy too. > [@jsc1953](#): > > Wow, how’s the view from up there on the moral high ground? Yeah, the nerve of that rat avatar. Standing above you like you were the one thrown in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582/100 "2014-04-09T18:07:33Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > Yeah, the nerve of that rat avatar. Standing above you like you were the one thrown in the pit. To be fair, **rat avatar** does seem to have a hair trigger. It’s understandable, I suppose; s/he’s feeling personally attacked. But it’s a bit indiscriminate, and IMHO a bit overblown. (I’m “content with mediocrity” because I don’t trackstand? Really?) What say, **rat**? Mind following up on why you jumped my shit so hard for no reason? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-why-people-hate-bicyclists/685582.md?page=6)