# This Isn't Hillary Clinton's Fault. Where's Obama? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 11, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473 "2016-11-11T06:13:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/21 "2016-11-11T13:27:52Z")
More idiocy and bigotry from a bigoted idiot. Hell, if supporting transgender rights hurt the Democrats, it doesn’t matter. It’s still the right thing to do. Supporting Civil Rights in the 60s decimated the Democratic party in the South. It was still the right thing to do. Bigotry is wrong, and the OP is wrong in his bigotry. The Democratic party is right to oppose bigotry, even if it’s made a ton of mistakes along the way and on other issues. ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/22 "2016-11-11T14:38:17Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > he created an atmosphere of such extreme political correctness that bred the safe spaces. He also coopted the stuff taught in gender studies, like transgenderism. He also co-opted the line that Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with Islam; things like “workplace violence” and suggesting terror attacks happen bc of Crusades during his 2009 ME tour. These ideas all fit with what far-left profs teach, emboldened both far-left profs and followers and led to the safe spaces. Ditto on the dichotomy on race. …This is too stupid to respond to. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/23 "2016-11-11T17:12:35Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > he created an atmosphere of such extreme political correctness that bred the safe spaces. He also coopted the stuff taught in gender studies, like transgenderism. He also co-opted the line that Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with Islam; things like “workplace violence” and suggesting terror attacks happen bc of Crusades during his 2009 ME tour. These ideas all fit with what far-left profs teach, emboldened both far-left profs and followers and led to the safe spaces. Ditto on the dichotomy on race. > Wow. Just wow. You clearly still want the Democrat Party to have no centrists/moderates. Even tho I’ve had a lot of posts that talk about my positions on stem cell research, environment, abortion, and yes, Obamacare (which I like a lot). > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Hillary Clinton was running against the tide of history; for the last 80 years, in every election in which a party has sought a 3rd term, the WH’s party’s nominee has won a lower share of the two-party vote, lower all-party vote, and lower electoral college vote. FDR fell in 1940 from 1936, in 1960 Nixon fell from Ike '56, in 1968 HHH fell from LBJ’s landslide, and even in 1988, Bush Sr. won by a lot smaller margin in both electoral and popular than Reagan did 8 years before, as Gore fell in pop margin and electoral total from Clinton four years before. Ditto McCain in 2008. Hillary had an uphill climb for anyone. Yet unlike McCain, HHH, Nixon '60, and Dewey, Hillary got the most votes. Even tho this time is an instance of pop/electoral split, its still relatively rare: 58 US elections have only 5 sub-plurality winners in 240 years. 2 in the last 125 years. > > She has had a hostile media forever that held her to higher ethical standards than anyone else. She is a natural moderate in a party that Barack Obama moved far to the left in cultural issues. She did not force Obama to move his party so far left on issues like transgender bathrooms, Washington Redskins, nor did she force his surrogates and media cheerleaders to make “white privilege” talk to the political mainstream, nor did she tell Obama to butt into Trayvon/Zimmerman. Bill Clinton stayed out of OJ: given the American public was divided on Trayvon/Zimmerman and it was kind of he said/she said with no video tape, he should’ve kept mum. I think gay marriage was the right thing; but societies don’t like fast change, and after gay marriage, Obama shoulda hit the breaks on such social issues, and hit them hard; democracy has consequences and backlash. > > Exit polls had [Trump besting Hillary on the terrorism question](http://www.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls/national/president) as badly as [Bush did Kerry in 2004](http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html). Hillary used the term “Islamic extremism” in the 2000s; she didn’t force Obama to call Fort Hood “workplace violence,” she was long out of office for Obama’s Iran $150 billion giveaway that is highly unpopular in polls; she didn’t force Obama to do the refugee thing, which had substantial resistance, even resistance among 47 Congressional Dems last year. She didn’t force Obama to put daylight between America and a [very popular ally](http://www.gallup.com/poll/189626/americans-views-toward-israel-remain-firmly-positive.aspx?g_source=Politics&g_medium=newsfeed&g_campaign=tiles). > > Obama said he wanted to “transform” America to the left like Reagan did to the right. Only Obama forgot that he could win because he got a level of black turnout to come out for him at levels that only occur when a black is on the ticket, and appealed to younger liberal voters because he is the diversity that they’ve been fed in schools for decades. The media also claimed he was “scandal free,” nevermind Solyndra and Fast/Furious. Obama got his party to go along because yes, he is likeable and charismatic, but also they convinced themselves that the demographics were changing too fast for Republicans. Obama may have done better than Hillary with WWCs in 2012 than Hillary in 2016, but his performance in 2012 was a downward move from 2008; Hillary merely continued HIS trend. He and his party forgot that whites are still the majority of America, and the majority of rural and exurban inhabitants. In America, as elsewhere, rural people are more conservative and traditional. And they vote. > > Obama did a bad job addressing movements like Occupy and BLM. By not calling out Occupy, he let the far-left take over the grassroots of his party, and foist Bernie Sanders to weaken Hillary. With BLM, he coulda had a Sister Souljah moment. Both movements had some good arguments; it was up to Obama to address the good arguments but disavow the extreme elements and do it hard. Why didn’t Obama come down on safe spaces bit harder? By not doing so, he let the Dem-leaning youth voters move the party to a place Hillary had no choice but to court to get them to vote in 2016. > > Obama was very wreckless with his political capital; when he got re-elected by less than he got initially elected, a first for a re-election to a 2nd term since 1916, he should’ve known better than to potentially screw his successor over. Every POTUS given a second term after 1916 until 2012 got a higher two-party vote, higher all-party vote, and higher electoral vote the second time, except him. Did Hillary run the best campaign? No. But Obama’s ideological zeal and what he turned the Democratic Party to is in part to blame for the election of Donald J. Trump. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that in the OP, the first concern mentioned is transgender. Given that our diminutive OP is consistently requesting to be allowed to tell trans people how horrible and icky they are. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/24 "2016-11-11T17:48:43Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > he created an atmosphere of such extreme political correctness that bred the safe spaces. He also coopted the stuff taught in gender studies, like transgenderism. He also co-opted the line that Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with Islam; things like “workplace violence” and suggesting terror attacks happen bc of Crusades during his 2009 ME tour. These ideas all fit with what far-left profs teach, emboldened both far-left profs and followers and led to the safe spaces. Ditto on the dichotomy on race. So in other words, he was a decent person that respected everyone? How fucked in the head is our country that this is considered a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/25 "2016-11-16T07:14:02Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > He’s an idiot concern troll. There’s the summary from my end. Your assessment sounds accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/26 "2016-11-16T07:51:53Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > You clearly still want the Democrat Party to have no centrists/moderates. Obama oozes centrism from his very pores. He’s about as close to the middle as you can get in the Democratic Party. Hence the loud complaining of disappointed progressives after a year or two when he turned out to be nowhere near as liberal as they had fantasized ( but that he never pretended to be ). Your steadfast insistence that he is some radical leftist reads like something straight out of the alt-right blogosphere. Obama is no socialist - he is from the same moderate wing of the party as the Clintons. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/27 "2016-11-16T09:12:49Z")
Derek, you’re simply too stupid to benefit from any advice I might be able to offer. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/28 "2016-11-16T10:29:29Z")
And I imagine a world in which the SDMB had an enterance exam. Nothing too difficult, just engaging enough to ensure that the densest stones sank immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/29 "2016-11-16T11:14:38Z")
The idea that Obama is extreme left rather than centrist is insane. The idea that any major politician in the US is more than centre-left is insane. The fact that the US media has redefined what Americans see as the centre so far to the right is…well, it’s also insane, but it’s pretty depressing, too. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/30 "2016-11-16T11:41:13Z")
I don’t agree with everything Derek says, but I’m actually surprised at how the first Democratic teflon President gets away with not being blamed yet again. One of the arguments against Martin O’Malley was that he set the stage for a Republican to succeed him. Bet that Republican is better than Donald Trump. But there’s proof that it’s not just Clinton’s fault. Clinton didn’t make the Democrats lose 18 governors mansions, 20 state legislative chambers, 60 House seats, and 14 Senate seats. Either Obama did that or it “just happened” which seems to be the belief of most Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/31 "2016-11-16T11:49:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But there’s proof that it’s not just Clinton’s fault. Clinton didn’t make the Democrats lose 18 governors mansions, 20 state legislative chambers, 60 House seats, and 14 Senate seats. Either Obama did that or it “just happened” which seems to be the belief of most Democrats. Because it’s taboo to admit that so much of the American public _really are_ bigots and worse. The Democrats were insufficiently evil to appeal to those voters, _that’s_ why they lost. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/32 "2016-11-16T12:30:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because it’s taboo to admit that so much of the American public _really are_ bigots and worse. The Democrats were insufficiently evil to appeal to those voters, _that’s_ why they lost. America elected Obama to the presidency; he took office with a Democratic majority in the House and a Democratic majority in the Senate, sure as a majority of the states had Democratic governors; I guess I get how you could try to explain the Republicans flipping all of those _now_ by saying “bigots and worse”, but how do you explain the Democrats having had all of them _then?_ Do you think they were too stupid to realize they were bigots and worse at the time, but it dawned on them after they re-elected Obama? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/33 "2016-11-16T12:38:43Z")
Democrats didn’t vote in strong enough numbers- that’s it in an obvious nutshell. Ramira linked to a nice graph showing this. Trump got fewer total votes than has been seen in years, it wouldn’t have taken much more to beat him. Too many of the Democrats who voted in 2008 and 2012 didn’t vote this time- I couldn’t tell you why. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/34 "2016-11-16T12:59:54Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Are you serious? Do you have any comprehension what ‘left’ and ‘right’ mean in politics? > > Oh, I see others have beaten me to the punch! > > 😉 You guys read past “She has had a hostile media”? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/35 "2016-11-16T13:09:49Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Obama oozes centrism from his very pores. He’s about as close to the middle as you can get in the Democratic Party. Hence the loud complaining of disappointed progressives after a year or two when he turned out to be nowhere near as liberal as they had fantasized ( but that he never pretended to be ). > > Your steadfast insistence that he is some radical leftist reads like something straight out of the alt-right blogosphere. Obama is no socialist - he is from the same moderate wing of the party as the Clintons. I’ve been laughing at most of the responses to the OP, but OMG, your post took the cake. My stomach hurts from laughing. I love revisionists. You people really do live in an alternate reality. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/36 "2016-11-16T13:17:07Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I’ve been laughing at most of the responses to the OP, but OMG, your post took the cake. My stomach hurts from laughing. > > I love revisionists. You people really do live in an alternate reality. Reality has a well-known liberal bias. I understand that in **Clothahump** world, there is no difference between liberal, socialist, and communist, but in the real world, nuance exists and politicians sometimes have complex views that aren’t reflected truthfully by the infotainment professionals (in this case, Limbaugh, Hannity, Breitbart, and the like) from the other side. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/37 "2016-11-16T16:06:10Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Obama… Shut the fuck up you unrepentant imbecile. And keep the president’s name outta your bigot mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/38 "2016-11-16T17:05:53Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I’ve been laughing at most of the responses to the OP, but OMG, your post took the cake. My stomach hurts from laughing. > > I love revisionists. You people really do live in an alternate reality. I think your problem is that you get your understanding of politics from email forwards. Barack Obama is not the most liberal president in modern era. In fact, he’s the most moderate. That’s according to a new study by political scientists Keith Poole and Christopher Hare at the University of Georgia. … The data shows that from 1945 to 2011 Republican presidents have moved more to the right than Democratic presidents have moved to the left. In fact, the Democrats have become more moderate, not liberal. … Obama has been the most moderate president since 1945 Hey, you’ve just learned that what you thought was correct was in fact wrong. A smart person might change his opinion when his understanding of the facts changes. But I think we all know you won’t do that… ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/39 "2016-11-16T17:28:55Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > My stomach hurts from laughing. Laugh harder. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473/40 "2016-11-16T19:08:37Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > And I imagine a world in which the SDMB had an enterance exam. Nothing too difficult, just engaging enough to ensure that the densest stones sank immediately. How about a “you must be this tall to post” requirement? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-isnt-hillary-clintons-fault-wheres-obama/771473.md?page=3)