# This just in: Bush's lawyer is a slimeball **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531 "2004-08-26T01:36:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/1 "2004-08-26T01:36:11Z")
Benjamin Ginsberg, chief “outside counsel” (whatever the fuck that means) to BushCheney04 resigned today because of his connection to the Not So Swift Boat Veterans for Smear. In a tone of weaselly defensiveness, he had this to say in the [New York Times](http://nytimes.com/2004/08/25/politics/campaign/25CND-SWIF.html?hp) : > [@](#): > > Mr. Ginsberg said his role was no different from that of Robert Bauer, a lawyer the Kerry campaign shares with America Coming Together, a liberal group that is organizing a huge multimillion-dollar get-out-the-vote drive that is far more ambitious than the Swift boat group’s activities. Except for the minor point that [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) does not exist for the sole purpose of spreading lies. What an asshole. Who is he, Martha Stewart? The point isn’t that you became associated with a political group, hon; it’s that you became associated with a political group that’s a bunch of liars; that you are the smoking link that makes it pretty hard to deny that Dubya was part of a dirty-tricks smear campaign. But as has been the rightwing battle cry for a couple decades, “We have to fight dirty; when we fight fair, the Democrats win.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/2 "2004-08-26T01:52:24Z")
> **[Breaking International News & Views](https://www.reuters.com/)** > [@](#): > > …“I was at the nexus of making sure (coordination) didn’t happen. To suggest otherwise is flat wrong,” Ginsberg said… So there! Ginsberg function was to make sure that such coordination _did not_ happen! He was there to prevent such coordination from happening! Does Kerry have a lawyer on staff whose function is to prevent coordination with [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org)? I _very_ much doubt it! Boy, I’ll bet the Kerry’s team had red faces when they found out that Ginsberg was on Bush’s staff to _prevent_ coordination! Sure showed them, huh? Huh? ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/3 "2004-08-26T03:14:20Z")
[Luci](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/) how can you not post to this thread the funny link you posted in the tome going on in GD. > [@](#): > > “Ben Ginsberg, a legal adviser to the Bush campaign, specifically condemned the dual roles played by Democrats Harold Ickes and Bill Richardson, who had official roles at the convention and also within prominent friendly 527s. ‘They’re over the coordination line,’ Ginsberg said of Ickes and Richardson. ‘The whole notion of cutting off links between public officeholders and soft-money groups just got exploded.’” > > To make things even better, Ginsberg doesn’t just advise the Swift Boat Guys – a role he will no doubt seriously downplay over the next few days. He serves as the official chief counsel to Progress for America, another 527 that, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, exists to “form ‘issue truth squads’ that respond to Democratic attacks on President Bush.” hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/4 "2004-08-26T03:20:18Z")
Y’know, I read the gentleman’s defense of his actions in the paper this morning, and to tell the truth, I pretty much bought it. Then I saw he’d resigned from the Bush campaign. What the fuck? If it was OK, and Democrats do it too, he had to resign? Almost immediately, even before the shit _really_ hit the fan? OK, I guess I’ve learned a lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/5 "2004-08-26T03:50:59Z")
Is it just me or is there a slight difference in relative party-politicalness between a group that tells everybody to vote, and a group that attacks one candidate in particular? ---
**Author:** ![smartini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@smartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smartini)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/6 "2004-08-26T05:08:48Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Is it just me or is there a slight difference in relative party-politicalness between a group that tells everybody to vote, and a group that attacks one candidate in particular? You’re in good company, but that does assume the logic that everyone wants to get the vote out :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/7 "2004-08-26T06:00:26Z")
People voting is generally bad for Republicans. This 527 nonsense is beyond surreal. First of all, Bush’s sudden out of the blue attack on all 527s (uh, they came in real handy for you in 2000 recount and you didn’t mind them then, and you opposed the laws against certain of their activities that you now claim to support!) makes no sense. Suddenly, he wants money out of politics and to constrain the use of money as free speech? Since when, yesterday? Did he even think about what he was saying, or was this yet another totally off the cuff remark that his handlers then had to quickly spin into a serious policy insight? Of course, if he actually wanted 527s to stop running ads, he could simply call up his buddies who are funding them and tell them to stop. Chances are, they would. Kerry could probably do the same thing. Except that neither of them can do that, most likely. Because that would be coordination, technically. All they CAN do is demand that people stop running certain types of ads with particular dishonest claims: something Kerry has done, and Bush has weaseled out of. But the legal situation is still pretty surreal. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/8 "2004-08-26T06:22:13Z")
You just figured out lawyers are shit? Where the fuck have you been? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/9 "2004-08-26T06:30:44Z")
It blows my mind, the spin that’s being used. [paraphrase] “Because one 527 is making factually incorrect attack ads, any 527 is wrong, espcially one which makes an ad which attacks a candidate based on factual and verifiable content. And there’s nothing out of the ordinary or in any way bad about the administration having links to a bullshit line being fed to us by a group of liars.” [/paraphrase] For the Gods’ sakes! What does it take for this administration to say “the SBVfT are factually incorrect and dishonorable in their conduct.” Is it so fucking hard to do the moral thing? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/10 "2004-08-26T06:35:37Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Suddenly, he wants money out of politics and to constrain the use of money as free speech? It’s not just the money he wants stopped, it’s the speech. Bush made his position clear in 1999: > [@](#): > > Saying **“there ought to be limits to freedom,”** Gov. George W. Bush has filed a legal complaint against the owners of a Web site that lampoons his White House bid. [Bush criticizes Web site as malicious](http://orgs.bloomu.edu/policom/bushlite.net/bushlite.net/limits.html) Ginsberg sent out the cease and desist letters in the above incident. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/11 "2004-08-26T06:49:34Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > For the Gods’ sakes! What does it take for this administration to say “the SBVfT are factually incorrect and dishonorable in their conduct.” > > Is it so fucking hard to do the moral thing? Well, aside from this being a veteran’s group that has nothing to do with the GOP… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/12 "2004-08-26T07:22:40Z")
_NOW_ will you listen?! **Duffer** has succumbed, who’s next? You? Here, take this pamphlet, “Cognitive Dissonance and the Fall of Western Civilization”, it’ll explain everything… ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/13 "2004-08-26T07:28:18Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Well, aside from this being a veteran’s group that has nothing to do with the GOP… :rolleyes: This is just so dang _cute!_ ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/14 "2004-08-26T07:39:22Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > This is just so dang _cute!_ Well, thank you very much! I just knew you were a fan of mine. _blush_ ---
**Author:** ![Vindi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Vindi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vindi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/15 "2004-08-26T07:47:11Z")
Why doesn’t Harold Ickes and Bill Richardson quit as well so we can just move on from this and get back to which knucklehead is going to work on the issues facing us in 2004 and beyond? :dubious: No. I am not angry at the choices for POTUS. Not angry at all. More like disappointed…deeply disappointed. Okay, maybe a bit angry and disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/16 "2004-08-26T07:48:38Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Well, aside from this being a veteran’s group that has nothing to do with the GOP… :rolleyes: **duffer** that simply isn’t true. [The Swift Boat vets are funded by Bob Perry](http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231) And, of course [Bob Perry is a long time associate of Carl Rove and a huge contributor to the GOP](http://joatmoaf.typepad.com/i_love_jet_noise/images/RNCconnections.gif) And, although I don’t have a cite for it up yet because CNN transcripts from today aren’t yet posted, I just watched an interview where Benjamin Ginsberg admitted that he’s friends with Bob Perry. So, you can roll your eyes all you want, but 'nothing to do with the GOP?" ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/17 "2004-08-26T07:51:55Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > **duffer** that simply isn’t true. What’re you, new? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/18 "2004-08-26T07:55:52Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > What’re you, new? I don’t grok… (and I am kinda new) ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/19 "2004-08-26T07:56:00Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > **duffer** that simply isn’t true. > > [The Swift Boat vets are funded by Bob Perry](http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231) > > And, of course [Bob Perry is a long time associate of Carl Rove and a huge contributor to the GOP](http://joatmoaf.typepad.com/i_love_jet_noise/images/RNCconnections.gif) > > And, although I don’t have a cite for it up yet because CNN transcripts from today aren’t yet posted, I just watched an interview where Benjamin Ginsberg admitted that he’s friends with Bob Perry. > > So, you can roll your eyes all you want, but 'nothing to do with the GOP?" Being associated with a political party is far different from being employed by them. If a group wants to help a candidate, they are free to do so. (see [moveon.org](http://moveon.org)) Considering George Soros, Barbara Steisand, Alec Baldwin, Bruce Springsteen, _et al_, I see no problem with people that personally know Kerry speaking out against him. By the way, it’s Karl, not Carl. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531/20 "2004-08-26T07:57:04Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > What’re you, new? cute. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-bushs-lawyer-is-a-slimeball/261531.md?page=2)