# This just in...Coinage reform dead in America **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2002, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767 "2002-04-04T14:05:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/21 "2002-04-04T17:04:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Legomancer \* > What do we benefit from a dollar coin that we don’t from a dollar bill? The answer to this one is real easy, **Legomancer** - dollar bills cost you, me, and every other taxpayer money. Paper bills cost less to produce, but only last, on average, eighteen months. Coins, while costing more to produce, last decades, and would therefore save greatly on replacement costs. Which is less money the government would have to spend on producing currency for circulation, and more money the government could use to build parking lots in Nome … er, to pay down the debt. 😃 Sua ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/22 "2002-04-04T17:07:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duke \* > \*\*I think another obstacle facing the Sackie is the construction of change drawers in tills. When I worked as a cashier, there were four trays for coins…so where would the fifth coin, the Sackie, go? Even in tills where there are five trays, most cashiers use the fifth tray for rubber bands, paper clips, and other miscellaneous stuff. > > \*\* I’ve thought about this, too, but they manage somehow in other countries. When I was in Germany, in the pre-Euro days, there were six or seven commonly circulating coins from one-pfennig all the way up to five marks. And I mean _commonly_ circulating. You could expect to get any one of them in change on a daily basis. Somehow they managed, so I don’t know why we can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/23 "2002-04-04T17:19:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > \*\* > > The answer to this one is real easy, **Legomancer** - dollar bills cost you, me, and every other taxpayer money. Paper bills cost less to produce, but only last, on average, eighteen months. Coins, while costing more to produce, last decades, and would therefore save greatly on replacement costs. Which is less money the government would have to spend on producing currency for circulation, and more money the government could use to build parking lots in Nome … er, to pay down the debt. 😃 > > Sua \*\* Okay, this is the most convincing argument I’ve heard here. I can go with this. But really, I don’t find paying for somethign with paper money to be the incredibly convoluted and contortionist-requiring task you claim. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/24 "2002-04-04T17:58:25Z")
Here’s one idea that’ll never fly - just like all the others: 1. Abandon both the penny _and_ the nickel. 2. Replace them both with a 2¢ coin. That frees up a slot in the coin drawer, _and_ should prevent any significant price increases. 1. Abandon dollar bills for dollar coins. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/25 "2002-04-04T18:05:27Z")
Canadian weighs in - I like $1 and $2 coins. I prefer them to the bills we used to have. It’s not true that you just forget them and they accumulate at home - they’re big and colorful and you don’t have a lot of them at any one time, so you separate them out and take them with you when you go out. In retrospect I think I would find it irritating to have to deal with $1 and $2 bills again, and when I go to the States I find the $1 bills clumsy. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/26 "2002-04-04T18:06:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > \*\*Here’s one idea that’ll never fly - just like all the others: > > 1. Abandon both the penny _and_ the nickel. > 2. Replace them both with a 2¢ coin. > > That frees up a slot in the coin drawer, _and_ should prevent any significant price increases. > > 1. Abandon dollar bills for dollar coins. \*\* I nominate you for Secretary Of The Treasury. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/27 "2002-04-04T18:12:25Z")
**Javaman** : True. I lived in England when the 2-pound coin was introduced, and cashiers didn’t seem to have a problem with finding a place for it. It just seemed to me that cashiers in the US had real problems with the Sackie, and the lack of a tray for it was one of their beefs. [obligatory Pit expletives]Fuck fuckity-fuck.[/obligatory Pit expletives] ---
**Author:** ![Purd\_Werfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47c2d/32.png) [@Purd\_Werfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purd_Werfect)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/28 "2002-04-04T18:15:31Z")
This is too bad. I found that it was very convenient while staying in countries with one and two dollar coins (or the equivalent monetary unit to the dollar). I loved being able to purchase things like lunch and CD’s with the change in my pocket. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/29 "2002-04-04T18:20:04Z")
The main argument for changing the US coinage system, AFAIAC, is that most of our circulating coins no longer actually _buy_ anything. Pennies and nickels really only exist to make change. Dimes are headed that way, though they aren’t completely there yet. But really, in terms of useful coins, it’s just the dime and the quarter, and soon enough it’ll just be the quarter. I’m sure a numismatist will be along to correct me soon enough, but didn’t we abandon the half-penny in 1858 or thereabouts? We’ve had just a wee tad of inflation in the intervening 144 years. If they didn’t need a half-penny in 1858, then we could easily do without the penny and the nickel today. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/30 "2002-04-04T18:22:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by javaman \* > I nominate you for Secretary Of The Treasury. I accept - it would be a pretty good pay hike. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/31 "2002-04-04T18:26:38Z")
At least 12 nickels will still get you a candy bar from the machine. Pennies won’t even do that. I have no problem with keeping the nickel, and given the wear-and-tear argument, a dollar as well, however, I’d make the dollar coin a dodecagon with a square cut out the middle, and perhaps blue. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/32 "2002-04-04T18:36:55Z")
I like the paper money because it’s easier to carry. I take my paper bills, in whatever denomination, fold them over twice and stick them in my pocket. When I have to pay for something, I reach in, pull a bill out, and pay. Change is heavier, it takes up more pocket space, always sinks to the bottom, jingles like crazy, and I have to pull out a big handful of it and then count through to get what I want. It’s annoying to use coins when I have the convenience of a foldable, light weight paper bill that I can carry around 50 or 100 of if I want to. (No way would I be carrying 50 quarters in my pocket). And the use of change? I get lots of it, and I dump it in the jar on the counter at night. When the jar gets full, the coins get wrapped and go to the bank. They get added to my bank account. I have financed week-long vacations to Canada by the ‘Mason Jar Savings Account System’. And that just \ fucking \ rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/33 "2002-04-04T19:18:32Z")
☹ ☹ ☹ ☹ ☹ I loved the Sackies. ☹ ☹ ☹ ☹ ☹ Poor Sacejawea. And poor Susan B. These women deserve better. It seems a female coin is cursed. (And loonies and toonies are cool!) Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/34 "2002-04-04T20:12:47Z")
Want a dollar coin to succeed? It’s not all that hard, if it’s done right. Sadly, the Treasury Department seems to think they can dictate to the market. #1) The coin must **not** be the size/shape/weight/color of a quarter (or any other coin). No negotiation on this one. Want a quick test to see if you succeeded? If you can’t sort 10 $1.00 coins from a pile of 40 quarters in the dark in under a minute, it’s the wrong damn size. (I bet a friend of mine that he couldn’t. He was arguing that the Sackie was completely different from a quarter. He lost.) And yes, there are several poorly lit vending machines I stop at regularly: it does matter. Color is the only thing that the Sackie got right: it’s differently colored than other coins (yeah, I know the “smooth edge, raised lip” business. Still too damn close (and the Suzy was even worse). #2) A dollar is a useful denomination. I tend to carry a lot of singles. You want me to switch to coins? Make the dollar coin light/small enough that I can carry, say…$10.00 in dollar coins in my pocket without having them pull my pants down. I can have 10 dimes in my pocket with no problem. #3) Stop the “We’ll force you to use 'em by dropping the $1.00 bill” crap. When someone comes up with a dollar coin that has some actual personal advantage (saving tax dollars, though worthy, doesn’t resonate with most people, sadly) to the consumer, it’ll be used. All the “get rid of the dollar bills” argument points out is that dictating to the market never works. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/35 "2002-04-04T20:27:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > \*\*The main argument for changing the US coinage system, AFAIAC, is that most of our circulating coins no longer actually _buy_ anything. Pennies and nickels really only exist to make change. Dimes are headed that way, though they aren’t completely there yet. But really, in terms of useful coins, it’s just the dime and the quarter, and soon enough it’ll just be the quarter. > \*\* Well put. I’d say that in most contexts, quarters and dimes also exist only to make change. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/36 "2002-04-04T20:32:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Purd Werfect \* > \*\*This is too bad. I found that it was very convenient while staying in countries with one and two dollar coins (or the equivalent monetary unit to the dollar). > > I loved being able to purchase things like lunch and CD’s with the change in my pocket. \*\* I loved going to an inexpensive restaurant (but not fast food, they still had menus and waiters) in Germany, and paying for my dinner with two 5-mark coins. The waiter would come to the table with a coin purse and make change right there. It seemed that the day’s receipts were almost all coin. I think most Americans have never travelled overseas and don’t realize how convenient high-value coins can be. As for the issue of coins jingling in and falling out of pockets, how do men in other countries deal with that? ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/37 "2002-04-04T20:40:24Z")
**javaman** said: > [@](#): > > I’d say that in most contexts, quarters and dimes also exist only to make change. I agree. But $1 is probably too high for the lowest denomination. How about this: Eliminate all currently used coins, and the $1 and $5 bills. Issue new, distinctive $5, $2, $1 and 50 cent coins. This, to me, would be the ideal solution. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/38 "2002-04-04T20:40:58Z")
Official US coins, with years of issue\* Half cent, copper, 1794-1857 One cent, copper or bronze, 1787-present (converted to smaller size in 1856-7) Two cents, bronze, 1864-1873 Three cents, silver, 1851-1873 Three cents, nickel, 1865-1889 Five cents, silver (half dime), 1792-1873 Five cents, nickel (and other alloys), 1866-present Ten cents (dime), silver and copper-nickel, 1792-present Twenty cents, silver, 1875-1878 Quarter dollar, silver and copper-nickel, 1796-present Half dollar, silver and copper-nickel, 1794-present Dollar, silver and copper-nickel, 1794-2002 (converted to smaller size in 1979) Dollar, gold, 1849-1889 Quarter eagle ($2.50), gold, 1796-1929 Three dollars, gold, 1854-1889 Four dollars (stella), gold, 1879-1880 Half eagle ($5), gold, 1795-1929 Eagle ($10), gold, 1795-1933 Double eagle ($20), gold, 1849-1932 [sub]\* – Many denominations were not issued for one or a group of years; dates are first and last issue of a coin in that denomination and metal[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![tallinu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6de8d8/32.png) [@tallinu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tallinu)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/39 "2002-04-04T21:17:09Z")
Wait! Wait! If there were no paper dollars, what would I use at the strip club? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767/40 "2002-04-04T21:29:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > #3) Stop the “We’ll force you to use 'em by dropping the $1.00 bill” crap. When someone comes up with a dollar coin that has some actual personal advantage (saving tax dollars, though worthy, doesn’t resonate with most people, sadly) to the consumer, it’ll be used. All the “get rid of the dollar bills” argument points out is that dictating to the market never works. No, no, no. You certainly can dictate to the market if you are the monopolist. Indeed, the market is utterly irrelevant here. If there aren’t any dollar bills around, people will use the dollar coins. Simple as that. Just look over at Europe. No one’s using marks or lira anymore, because they aren’t legal currency anymore. The market had nothing to do with that. Experience in both Canada and England demonstrate that the effective way to substitute coinage for paper is to discontinue making the paper. Let’s face it - in the marketplace, dollar bills will win. They are simply more convenient than dollar coins - lighter, easier to store, etc. Much as I’m in favor of dollar coins, given a choice, I’ll use dollar bills. If the government wants to effectively introduct dollar coins, in order to save government money, it will have to act with courage and present the American people with a _fait accompli_. Sua [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-coinage-reform-dead-in-america/101767.md?page=3)