# This Just In...Fox News Channel is bunch of lying fucks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 22, 2021, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180 "2021-01-22T06:13:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1322 "2023-02-15T18:21:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I wouldn’t both sides it too hard, though, as one drips little rabbit turds from time to time, and the other is constantly churning it out like butter. Agreed completely. For me it’s a reminder that you shouldn’t take what commentators say as gospel, even if you like them. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > But he went on about it for _years_, calling out and doxxing parents, calling on his listeners to harass them. Hmm… That’s a good point. There is a difference between opinion and calls to action. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1323 "2023-02-15T19:09:39Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > There is a difference between opinion and calls to action. The latter is what we have come to call “stochastic terrorism”. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1324 "2023-02-15T19:22:14Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > To a large extent, this is true. And it _should_ be, as they are expressing their _opinions_ and they shouldn’t be liable for doing so. To the extent it is not true is that they are still not allowed to have a call to action for violence or anything like that, there _are_ limits. > > The problem comes when people (apparently unreasonable people) take their expressed opinion as fact. I disagree with this. I think a show that styles itself as news, and **knowingly** lies, should suffer some repercussions. I don’t believe that it is in society’s best interest to defend **willful** lies. (I’m putting “knowingly” and “willful” in bold because the normal retort is “Who decides what is the truth?” When the only thing that matters in this context is whether the _speaker_ believed they had grounds for a claim). The judge that let Carlson off the hook made the wrong call. Carlson’s show looks enough like a factual show that millions take everything he says as gospel truth. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1325 "2023-02-15T19:37:19Z")
Honestly, I find the “sponsored segment” shit on my local network news station to be horribly cringey. John Oliver did a good [show](https://youtu.be/sIi_QS1tdFM) on the topic. But – like “compensated endorser” only means “I’m being paid to say whatever the Fk they tell me to” if you’re aware enough to get that – “sponsored content” probably meets some questionable minimum legal disclaimer standard, but shoots far wide of those who are probably most vulnerable to whatever bullshit they’re selling. And I’ve _never_ seen anything even remotely resembling a disclaimer on Fox’s evening lineup. I’d wager that a vanishingly small % of Tuckster’s viewers have even heard of that “no reasonable person” defense, or would believe it (“HA! See how he owned the libs … again?!?”) if presented with it. The information bubbles are nearly perfect these days, for those who bask comfortably within them. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1326 "2023-02-15T19:38:06Z")
I think that Fox News itself could and should be held liable for presenting itself as a news organization when a significant portion of what it broadcasts is _not_ news. But, those programs _are_ considered to be opinion, and can be held to a lower factual standard than those considered to be news. > [@Mijin](#): > > Carlson’s show looks enough like a factual show that millions take everything he says as gospel truth. Yes, but they are very stupid people. Huh, I wonder if that should have been the counter argument. “No reasonable person would take what Carlson says as truth.” “Yes, but the people who watch Carlson are not reasonable, he intentionally attracts the ignorant and gullible who _will_ believe his lies.” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1327 "2023-02-15T19:39:56Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > And I’ve _never_ seen anything even remotely resembling a disclaimer on Fox’s evening lineup. I’d wager that a vanishingly small % of Tuckster’s viewers have even heard of that “no reasonable person” defense, or would believe it (“HA! See how he owned the libs … again?!?”) if presented with it. And I’d agree that there _should_ be a disclaimer. Not necessarily as self deprecating as some suggested, but certainly pointing out that these are opinion shows, and that you should not rely on them for factual information without checking with a legitimate source. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1328 "2023-02-15T19:45:57Z")
Instead of a needed disclaimer, what is happening behind the scenes is “Wink, wink. We pulled a fast one on those lefties-they believed that crap we fed them about being a parody show-those idiots!”. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1329 "2023-02-15T19:51:49Z")
I don’t think that anyone on the left actually believes that. The fast one that they are pulling is the people on the right who believe that it is factual. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1330 "2023-02-15T19:54:45Z")
I don’t think Fox gives a shit about what the Left believes. Their target is the right, and they are hitting the bullseye with their bullshit. Their audience has been prepped to think that pwning the Libs is more important that being factual. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1331 "2023-02-15T20:02:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t think Fox gives a shit about what the Left believes. What I said was in response to: > [@Czarcasm](#): > > those lefties-they believed that crap we fed them > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Their target is the right, and they are hitting the bullseye with their bullshit. Agreed, and I think that’s what I just said. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Their audience has been prepped to think that pwning the Libs is more important that being factual. Having met their audience, I’ll agree. In fact, they are not only being fed lies, they also see it as freeing them to tell their own. Fox viewers will just make things up on the spot to act as a contradiction to facts. They _know_ that they are lying, but it doesn’t matter, as long as they “win” the conversation, and they only “win” if the other person loses, and the other person loses if they get upset about all the lying. I’ve tried explaining to my mother that these “wins” of hers come at a cost. She doesn’t care, she would rather drive away what is left of her family than to not take any opportunity to win. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1332 "2023-02-15T20:03:42Z")
Even if they did have a disclaimer their audience would just conclude that Fox was forced to put it up as part of the Deep State’s agenda to suppress the Truth, and so disregard it, the same way we would disregard a signed confession to war crimes from a Ukrainian soldier in Russian custody. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1333 "2023-02-15T20:12:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Huh, I wonder if that should have been the counter argument. “No reasonable person would take what Carlson says as truth.” “Yes, but the people who watch Carlson are not reasonable, he intentionally attracts the ignorant and gullible who _will_ believe his lies.” I think “unreasonable” is better (though still not ideal), because I have known otherwise bright people who believed crap on FOX. What they share in common is a poor understanding of skepticism and standards of evidence. They are not applying reasoning to what they’re hearing. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Even if they did have a disclaimer their audience would just conclude that Fox was forced to put it up as part of the Deep State’s agenda to suppress the Truth, and so disregard it, the same way we would disregard a signed confession to war crimes from a Ukrainian soldier in Russian custody. I think it could make a dent for some on the margins. I mean, in a hypothetical ideal reality, the court would order that their main presenters each have to record a disclaimer that goes out before their show. I think it would make a difference for some to see their trusted sage telling them, say, “The following programme is for entertainment purposes only, and may often include factually false information”. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1334 "2023-02-15T20:56:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > They _know_ that they are lying, but it doesn’t matter, as long as they “win” the conversation, and they only “win” if the other person loses, and the other person loses if they get upset about all the lying. Which cuts to the heart of “political correctness” or “virtue signalling”, both of which are basically accusations of “you don’t believe the thing you are professing, and are only doing it for social benefits within your tribe”. The right is quick to accuse others of it because they know the concept so well. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1335 "2023-02-15T22:44:14Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Which cuts to the heart of “political correctness” or “virtue signalling”, both of which are basically accusations of “you don’t believe the thing you are professing, and are only doing it for social benefits within your tribe”. The right is quick to accuse others of it because they know the concept so well. And they can’t conceive that anyone would act virtuous for the sake of doing the correct thing. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1336 "2023-02-16T23:10:07Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I disagree with this. I think a show that styles itself as news, and **knowingly** lies, should suffer some repercussions. How do you write a law like this that doesn’t ban _The Daily Show_? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1337 "2023-02-16T23:13:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How do you write a law like this that doesn’t ban _The Daily Show_? Yeah, that would be really difficult. There are a lot of shows that mix humor and information, and as long as they don’t present themselves as an actual news program they are able to stay out of trouble. Even Weekend Update on Saturday Night Live does this. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1338 "2023-02-16T23:24:06Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How do you write a law like this that doesn’t ban _The Daily Show_? Two answers: 1. You don’t. On _the Daily Show_, they do state some facts in a sober way, as empirical facts. _Last Week Tonight_ do this even more. If their facts are just made up out of whole cloth, then yeah, they can suffer the same repercussions as the opinion shows. After all, the situation today is that they can be sued for defamation. My opinion is merely that it is in the public interest to have willful lies about, say, covid vaccines to have the same potential repercussions as willful lies about, say, ExxonMobil. 2. Yes there should be an exception for satire and humor. I don’t think it’s that difficult in practice to find the difference. Is the presenter doing an humorously over the top caricature, that a live audience is laughing at? Or, more crucially, if asked to explain the joke, can they? People like Tucker Carlson play the “It was a joke” card all the time, and I wish he would be asked to explain the joke. When he said he was rooting for Russia, and emphasized he was serious, what was the joke? (NB: I’m not saying that “rooting for Russia” should have any repercussions, I am just speaking generally about the joke defence for a moment). ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1339 "2023-02-16T23:33:36Z")
Fox – coming as a shock to absolutely nobody – has wrapped itself in both the flag _and_ the Constitution, trotting out the “Why do YOU hate America” defense: > **[Fox hosts didn’t believe 2020 election fraud claims](https://news.yahoo.com/fox-dominion-defamation-suit-assault-204323569.html)** > > Hosts at Fox News had serious concerns about allegations of voter fraud in the 2020 presidential election being made by guests who were allies of former President Donald Trump, according to court filings in a $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against... > A $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against Fox News by Dominion Voting Systems over the network’s coverage of the 2020 presidential election is an assault on the First Amendment, attorneys for the cable news giant argued in a counterclaim unsealed Thursday. IANAL, but I’m pretty sure I once read that even “Freedom of Speech” doesn’t imply freedom FROM consequences. And so it goes. Incidentally, this isn’t new. It’s just the [**Otter Defense**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PYb_anBMus) rehashed. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1340 "2023-02-16T23:40:04Z")
I found this web site helpful: [https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/opinion-and-fair-comment-privileges](https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/opinion-and-fair-comment-privileges) That was written with the intention of guiding web site content, but it seems like it would apply the same to a TV show. As you can see, it’s not a simple black-and-white situation. Another site talks about suing the media for defamation. > **[Suing the Media For Defamation? Read this First! – Minc Law](https://www.minclaw.com/suing-the-media-defamation/)** > > In short, yes, you Can Sue the Media for Defamation. But it may not be the best option. In this post, learn why that is, and effective removal alternatives. > The First Amendment protects the right of news organizations (and individuals) to voice opinions, criticize others, and comment on matters of public interest. Even offensive statements are protected as long as they are “pure opinions” – statements that cannot be proven true or false. This protection is otherwise referred to as the [opinion defense](https://www.minclaw.com/legal-resource-center/what-is-defamation/can-opinion-defamatory/) and fair comment privilege. > > For the sake of example, say you make the comment, “I think the mayor is a jerk.” Such a statement expresses a pure opinion that could neither be proven nor disproven and is thus protected speech. > > But, a statement that implies false underlying facts may still be defamatory. For instance, stating “The congressman is a drug dealer” can lead a reader to assume that you must have some facts to back up your claim. Unless you have facts that you are willing to share in support of your claim, you could be liable for defamation. Both the Maddow case that was dismissed, as well as the Carlson case that were dismissed, involved evaluating the tone and statements and determined that a reasonable person wouldn’t consider either to be offering facts. In Carlson’s case, they claimed that he uses hyperbole constantly, and just makes up or exaggerates things. Even when he says, “this is a fact,” that isn’t seen as presenting a fact, because the “facts” are ridiculous hyperbole. The same way that when Maddow said that OAN “really literally is paid Russian propaganda,” that wasn’t stating a fact even though the words she used when taken on their own (and out of context) seem to be stressing that she’s trying to convey factual information. I can’t say I am in full agreement, but I can see the potential harm in trying to stifle this speech. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180/1341 "2023-02-17T01:21:00Z")
Those still following this thread should really take the few minutes necessary and read this: > **[Tucker Carlson told his producer Trump is 'the undisputed world champion' of...](https://news.yahoo.com/tucker-carlson-told-producer-trump-231515596.html)** > > "At this point we're getting hurt no matter what," Carlson texted his producer two days after Fox became the first network to call Arizona for Biden, per a new court filing. Shocked … but not at all surprised. But we DO learn a few things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180.md?page=66) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-fox-news-channel-is-bunch-of-lying-fucks/931180.md?page=68)