# This Just In - Obama Most Liberal Member of Congress **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749 "2007-03-20T18:32:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749/41 "2007-03-22T17:13:35Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] It seems to me that people get tarred for positions they held long ago all the time. It’s not a practice that screams of intellectual honesty, I grant, but it’s done by both sides to both sides with comfortable frequency. [/quote] Meh, a common fallacy is still a fallacy. > [@](#): > > Nor is it entirely without merit. We’re entitled to speculate on someone who’s record has changed over time: does their new position represent a genuine change in their philosophy and understanding, or was it adopted for more cyncial (i.e., political) purposes? This is getting kinda broad and philosophical, rather then about the specific claim the article made. No one ever said anything about it being invalid in a general sense to question why people change their position. But this specific study isn’t about why Kucinich may have changed his postions, the fact is that he has And he is currently the most liberal person running for the Dem nomination, even if he _really_ did it, in his heart of hearts, to pick up hippie chicks or as part of a neferious (and pretty unsuccessful) plan to seize more political power. So to repeat my question: "Do you agree, then, with the statement that “Obama is more liberal then Kucinich”? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749/42 "2007-03-22T19:05:29Z")
[QUOTE=Eleusis] Conservative used to be a respectable word until it was tainted by the actions of certain conservatives. [/QUOTE] I’m curious who you’re talking about here. The only candidate in the last dozen years who might be considered a true conservative (that I can think of off the top of my head) is Pat Buchanan. Is that who you are referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749/43 "2007-03-22T19:09:47Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] This is getting kinda broad and philosophical, rather then about the specific claim the article made. No one ever said anything about it being invalid in a general sense to question why people change their position. But this specific study isn’t about why Kucinich may have changed his postions, the fact is that he has And he is currently the most liberal person running for the Dem nomination, even if he _really_ did it, in his heart of hearts, to pick up hippie chicks or as part of a neferious (and pretty unsuccessful) plan to seize more political power. So to repeat my question: "Do you agree, then, with the statement that “Obama is more liberal then Kucinich”? [/QUOTE] No. But I might agree with: “Obama’s overall record is more liberal than Kucinich’s.” And if someone were to utter the first sentence, and defend it by then offering the second sentence, I would be hard-pressed to call him a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749/44 "2007-03-22T19:11:38Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] I’m curious who you’re talking about here. The only candidate in the last dozen years who might be considered a true conservative (that I can think of off the top of my head) is Pat Buchanan. Is that who you are referring to? [/QUOTE] Huh–I thought Pat Buchanan was a true Scotsman, not a true conservative. Wouldja mind defining your terms, and showing that your definition is the one in general use in American politics? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749/45 "2007-03-22T19:45:11Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] Huh–I thought Pat Buchanan was a true Scotsman, not a true conservative. Wouldja mind defining your terms, and showing that your definition is the one in general use in American politics? Daniel [/QUOTE] I’m not sure what you mean. A conservative is for smaller government, lower taxes, more personal responsibility and less foreign involvement. That’s pretty much always been the definition as far as I know, what are you talking about? I mean, why do you think they call the rabble in power right now “Neo-Cons”? Because they do not meet the definition of conservative. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749/46 "2007-03-22T19:57:33Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] A conservative is for smaller government, lower taxes, more personal responsibility and less foreign involvement. That’s pretty much always been the definition as far as I know . . . [/QUOTE] [Not that simple.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7773797&postcount=17) ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749/47 "2007-03-22T21:50:32Z")
I disagree BG. It only works if you are using “conservative” as a description of the current Republicans who hold the Executive branch of government today, but I would never make that mistake. Republican =! conservative, and George W Bush isn’t conservative in the least. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749/48 "2007-03-22T23:11:10Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] I disagree BG. It only works if you are using “conservative” as a description of the current Republicans who hold the Executive branch of government today, but I would never make that mistake. Republican =! conservative, and George W Bush isn’t conservative in the least. [/QUOTE] My point was that, as there are several different schools of conservative thought/politics in America, so there are several different and equally valid definitions of “conservative.” (I’ve made some effort to [enumerate](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=198129&highlight=conservatives) them.) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749/49 "2007-03-23T12:49:03Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [Not that simple.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7773797&postcount=17) [/QUOTE] I don’t know why your excellent points seem so summarily ignored. And it’s the same for “Liberal”. Some modern leftists and authoritarians in the US (and especially at the Dope) seem shocked that the label they’ve appropriated doesn’t fit either history or the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749/50 "2007-03-23T20:04:26Z")
[QUOTE=FordPrefect] Are you sure he isn’t a Canuck? [/QUOTE] Thanks, but no thanks. There’s enough ignorance about Canadian politics already; no need to breed more. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749/51 "2007-03-23T20:13:18Z")
Oh, and let me also add that I now have proof that the National Journal is entirely divorced from reality. As is anyone who takes their preposterous concept seriously. Really, have they lost their minds? Do they really think it’s possible to assign objective ratings about something as subjective as whether something is “right” or “left?” This is all an exercise in mental masturbation, letting them work themselves into a lather about someone they fear. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749/52 "2007-03-26T21:52:34Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I don’t know why your excellent points seem so summarily ignored. And it’s the same for “Liberal”. Some modern leftists and authoritarians in the US (and especially at the Dope) seem shocked that the label they’ve appropriated doesn’t fit either history or the rest of the world. [/QUOTE] You’re missing the point. “Libertarian” is a term with a fairly narrow, precise, technical definition. “Liberal” and “Conservative” are not. But “Libertarian” != “Liberal.” ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2007, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749/53 "2007-03-27T05:47:59Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] I’m curious who you’re talking about here. The only candidate in the last dozen years who might be considered a true conservative (that I can think of off the top of my head) is Pat Buchanan. Is that who you are referring to? [/QUOTE] Last dozen years? Who said anything about the last dozen years? I was talking about W. He’s the one whose actions I was referring to. Now kindly fuck off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-just-in-obama-most-liberal-member-of-congress/396749.md?page=2)