# This Michael Flynn guy just can't stop committing treason **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770 "2017-02-13T19:21:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/21 "2017-02-13T19:55:34Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Hey, dingleberry, you’re incoherent and have no idea what the subject matter is that you are talking about. I’m trying to walk you through this, so you might not want to be such an asshole. If you have something to say, just fucking say it. Jesus Christ. Question for you: are you aware of the latest news on Flynn? ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/22 "2017-02-13T19:56:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If it helps, you may recall that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were convicted of espionage, but not treason. The prosecution being driven by Roy Cohn, close friend and mentor of you-know-who. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/23 "2017-02-13T20:10:41Z")
I wish people would stop throwing around accusations of “treason” where they don’t apply, because it just dilutes the argument. Right, Flynn didn’t commit treason, we get that. But I’m quite sure that what he did, although not treasonous, still violates some very significant laws. I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t know the proper name for what he did, but whatever it’s called, charge him with that. EDIT: Ah, right, espionage. Is there any reason that doesn’t fit? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/24 "2017-02-13T20:13:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > EDIT: Ah, right, espionage. Is there any reason that doesn’t fit? From the [cited article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trumps-national-security-adviser-shared-secrets-without-permission-files-show/2016/12/13/72669740-c146-11e6-9578-0054287507db_print.html): “Although Flynn lacked authorization to share the classified material, he was not disciplined or reprimanded after the investigation concluded that he did not act “knowingly” and that “there was no actual or potential damage to national security as a result,” according to Army records obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act.” … “It was a general intelligence briefing that included stuff that shouldn’t have been on those slides,” said a former senior U.S. intelligence official, who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity, citing the sensitivity of the subject. The disclosures revealed “stuff the intelligence community was doing that had a much higher level of classification.” * * * It is not “espionage” when, during an intelligence briefing with friendly military personnel, you “unknowingly” share something of higher level of classification than permitted. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/25 "2017-02-13T20:15:50Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > From the [cited article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trumps-national-security-adviser-shared-secrets-without-permission-files-show/2016/12/13/72669740-c146-11e6-9578-0054287507db_print.html): > > “Although Flynn lacked authorization to share the classified material, he was not disciplined or reprimanded after the investigation concluded that he did not act “knowingly” and that “there was no actual or potential damage to national security as a result,” according to Army records obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act.” Does espionage require “actual damage”? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/26 "2017-02-13T20:17:49Z")
Maybe Flynn broke a law (Logan Act?), maybe he didn’t. But it’s a mistake to buy into the right-wing’s framework in which all political arguments must be cast into the form of a criminal charge. James Comey and Jeff Sessions aren’t going to save us from the incompetent and reckless people Trump appoints. What’s going to save us is the Republican Congress growing a spine or, more likely, everyone who knows better voting for Democrats in 2018 (and in special election leading up to 2018). Frankly, Flynn’s Russia calls and even the possibility of collaboration with the DNC hack is not what keeps me up at night. It’s the fact that they are complete idiots, whose operational security makes Hillary Clinton’s email server look like Fort Knox. We’ve got people tweeting selfies with the nuclear football guy, White House staff illuminating classified documents using iPhone flashlights, and random Mar-a-Lago waiters and patrons listening into ad hoc national security meetings about North Korean missile launches. If you’d written this as satire in October 2016, people would have called it too over-the-top. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/27 "2017-02-13T20:18:17Z")
Former U.S. officials said that Flynn had disclosed sensitive information to Pakistan in late 2009 or early 2010 about secret U.S. intelligence capabilities being used to monitor the Haqqani network, an insurgent group accused of repeated attacks on U.S. forces in Afghanistan. Flynn exposed the capabilities during meetings with Pakistani officials in Islamabad. The former U.S. intelligence official said a CIA officer who accompanied Flynn reported the disclosures to CIA headquarters Is Pakistan our ally? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/28 "2017-02-13T20:20:59Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > it’s a mistake to buy into the right-wing’s framework in which all political arguments must be cast into the form of a criminal charge. I agree with this in general, but Flynn was one of the ones calling for H to be jailed. A little execution for espionage might be just what he needs to get some perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/29 "2017-02-13T20:23:05Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Former U.S. officials said that Flynn had disclosed sensitive information to Pakistan in late 2009 or early 2010 about secret U.S. intelligence capabilities being used to monitor the Haqqani network, an insurgent group accused of repeated attacks on U.S. forces in Afghanistan. > > Flynn exposed the capabilities during meetings with Pakistani officials in Islamabad. The former U.S. intelligence official said a CIA officer who accompanied Flynn reported the disclosures to CIA headquarters > > Is Pakistan our ally? [Yes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally). ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/30 "2017-02-13T20:28:30Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I agree with this in general, but Flynn was one of the ones calling for H to be jailed. A little execution for espionage might be just what he needs to get some perspective. OK, I think I understand what you are attempting here, but execute a guy for what seem to be purely political reasons, just because you are pissed off over how Mrs. Clinton was treated during the campaign? No sale. To paraphrase an earlier post: Slow your roll, **EE**. The Trump government has 4 years to give you crap to bitch about. Don’t blow your wad in the first 3 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/31 "2017-02-13T20:35:22Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > If you have something to say, just fucking say it. Jesus Christ. > > Question for you: are you aware of the latest news on Flynn? Yes. I’m trying to get a sense if you think that using words constitutes giving “aid and comfort.” But no, you have to give the runaround to a simple question. Because you could have also been referring to Flynn’s free dinner with Putin at the RT event, as far as anyone might understand your rage-fueled blatherings. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/32 "2017-02-13T20:36:33Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > [Yes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally). And yet we had to keep them in the dark about the raid that got bin Laden. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/33 "2017-02-13T20:41:45Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Which is why we don’t pass out military secrets willy-nilly. In fact, that may be why we call them secrets. Strange I shared secrets with foreign representatives all the time during one deployment. They gave me a medal at the end of it. Producing classified orders and pushing it out to the multinational force that would have to execute them was my job. My shared office area was even considered an approved container for Secret information. One of my coworkers was a foreign officer who had the code to access the office anytime he wanted. He even produced a weekly product for briefing to the US Commanding General that the US classified as Secret. Flynn’s job involved sharing highly classified stuff with non-Americans all the time. Pushing out all the information you can, without stepping over the line into things that the US specifically says cannot be shared with the audience, was his job. In the specific cases of Australia and UK, from your link, that is a lot of information thanks to the Five Eyes agreement. Fucking up by oversharing with allies is not treason. It’s just fucking up. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/34 "2017-02-13T20:45:05Z")
On the one hand, yes, it doesn’t meet the legal definition of “treason.” On the other hand, consider these words damning the Rosenbergs: > [@Irving Kaufman](#): > > I consider your crime worse than murder…who knows but that millions more of innocent people may pay the price of your treason. Kaufman, of course, was the judge who sentenced the Rosenbergs to death. So even judges trained in the relevant laws may use the word “treason” in its non-legal sense in a critical legal opinion. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/35 "2017-02-13T20:59:12Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > The prosecution being driven by Roy Cohn, close friend and mentor of you-know-who. Cohn didn’t drive the prosecution. He was on the prosecution team as a junior member if the prosecution team. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/36 "2017-02-13T21:04:50Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I agree with this in general, but Flynn was one of the ones calling for H to be jailed. A little execution for espionage might be just what he needs to get some perspective. The Rosenburgs were executed for passing nuclear secrets to the Soviets which assisted them making a bomb. Partisan Americans of both parties are hysterical whiny bitches. Welcome to the future of American political discourse. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/37 "2017-02-13T21:07:17Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Cohn didn’t drive the prosecution. He was on the prosecution team as a junior member if the prosecution team. He was still one of the drivers. According to some sources, his recommendation swayed the judge to give the death sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/38 "2017-02-13T21:14:23Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > Strange I shared secrets with foreign representatives all the time during one deployment. They gave me a medal at the end of it. Producing classified orders and pushing it out to the multinational force that would have to execute them was my job. My shared office area was even considered an approved container for Secret information. One of my coworkers was a foreign officer who had the code to access the office anytime he wanted. He even produced a weekly product for briefing to the US Commanding General that the US classified as Secret. I assume you “shared secrets with foreign representatives” after receiving appropriate permission. If not, don’t admit anything. It would apparently be espionage. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/39 "2017-02-13T21:17:47Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > He was still one of the drivers. According to some sources, his recommendation swayed the judge to give the death sentence. And? The couple (Julius at least) passed stolen nuclear secrets to the Soviets. They made the world a far more dangerous place driven purely by their political ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/40 "2017-02-13T21:18:08Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > OK, I think I understand what you are attempting here, but execute a guy for what seem to be purely political reasons, just because you are pissed off over how Mrs. Clinton was treated during the campaign? No sale. I was making a joke. “Being executed for espionage would help him gain some perspective” was intended to be funny. I don’t really think that being executed would help him gain perspective. At least, not in the long term. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770.md?page=3)