# This Michael Flynn guy just can't stop committing treason **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770 "2017-02-13T19:21:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/61 "2017-02-14T06:43:51Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > I sense a new expression in the offing. “Out like Flynn.” It’s trending on Twitter. You inspired me to make a pair of meme’s - the Tavern, and Errol. [Images on Twitter for #OutLikeFlynn.](https://twitter.com/search?f=images&vertical=news&q=%23OutLikeFlynn&src=typd) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/62 "2017-02-14T07:13:15Z")
Ah, I love the euphemisms for lying. We’ve had “That statement is now inoperative” , and “The president misspoke himself” from the Watergate era" We’ve enjoyed “That was not intended to be a factual statement” from Republican Sen. Jon Kyl Now from Flynn, we have “I inadvertently briefed the Vice President-elect and others with incomplete information.” AKA, “I told them a bunch of lies” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/63 "2017-02-14T07:24:02Z")
You forgot “alternative facts”. This administration is great! For Saturday Night Live. The rest of us are screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/64 "2017-02-14T07:26:47Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Ah, I love the euphemisms for lying. > > We’ve had “That statement is now inoperative” , and “The president misspoke himself” from the Watergate era" > > We’ve enjoyed “That was not intended to be a factual statement” from Republican Sen. Jon Kyl > > Now from Flynn, we have “I inadvertently briefed the Vice President-elect and others with incomplete information.” AKA, “I told them a bunch of lies” “That’s not a lie, it’s a terminological inexactitude.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/65 "2017-02-14T07:40:46Z")
> [@](#): > > …By Monday evening, Mr. Flynn’s fortunes were rapidly shifting — his resignation came roughly seven hours after Kellyanne Conway, a counselor to the president, said on MSNBC that Mr. Trump had “full confidence” in the retired general… [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/us/politics/donald-trump-national-security-adviser-michael-flynn.html?\_r=0](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/us/politics/donald-trump-national-security-adviser-michael-flynn.html?_r=0) (emphasis gleefully added) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/66 "2017-02-14T09:34:46Z")
Interesting, I was just reading the Friday paper herein Israel, and their political analyst - who knows what he’s talking about - mentioned that the Israeli defense establishment had a huge amount of respect for James Mattis, and “much less” respect for Flynn. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/67 "2017-02-14T11:46:17Z")
I think it is extremely unlikely that Flynn made contact with the Russian government without having been instructed to by Trump. I think it’s time we found out what the president knew and when he knew it. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/68 "2017-02-14T11:49:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think espionage is an appropriate charge either. Flynn was National Security Adviser; I’m assuming he had legal access to the information he passed on. So the crime wouldn’t be in obtaining the classified information but in passing it on without authorization. So the appropriate charge would be [Disclosure of Classified Information](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/798). He might also be looking at [Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793) and [Gathering or delivering defense information to aid foreign government](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/794). Those laws you linked to are part of the Espionage Act. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/69 "2017-02-14T12:20:47Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > I sense a new expression in the offing. “Out like Flynn.” Beats me. All I had was “Our Canned Flynn” (2017) (comedy) ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/70 "2017-02-14T12:33:51Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Beats me. All I had was “Our Canned Flynn” (2017) (comedy) ~missed the edit window~ de Havilland: “Why, you speak treason!” Flynn: “Fluently.” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/71 "2017-02-14T12:44:29Z")
Good to get one Putin pet out, but we’re going to be stuck with General BetrayUs instead. All Putin has to do is find a Natasha to bed down with him and he might as well have an office in the Situation Room. If there’s a smoking gun that leads to a Big Orange resignation/impeachment, I’ll go to church every Sunday, I promise. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/72 "2017-02-14T13:01:55Z")
I feel sad for Flynn. He commits a little light espionage for his boss, and gets thrown under the bus as soon as it comes to light. All that time spent leading “lock her up!” chants, and this is how they repay him. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/73 "2017-02-14T13:12:39Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think it is extremely unlikely that Flynn made contact with the Russian government without having been instructed to by Trump. I think it’s time we found out what the president knew and when he knew it. _\_ Has our so-called President himself made any statement/comment about Flynn’s resignation? No 3 am tweet on the subject? This must make him furious, because it strikes at the heart of what is most important to him: APPEARANCES. He’s got to scrape all the Flynn cooties off of himself pronto. I’m looking forward to the tap dance he’s going to do, especially the part where he spins on one foot. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I feel sad for Flynn. He commits a little light espionage for his boss, and gets thrown under the bus as soon as it comes to light. All that time spent leading “lock her up!” chants, and this is how they repay him. There’s just no fucking justice. Oh…wait. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/74 "2017-02-14T13:18:13Z")
Several Republicans have been on CNN this morning. All seem very blasé about the whole thing. Lots of talking of moving forward and “we must protect the country” crap. Nothing about protecting the country from Russian influence. Remarkable how forgiving they can be. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/75 "2017-02-14T13:28:27Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Several Republicans have been on CNN this morning. All seem very blasé about the whole thing. > Lots of talking of moving forward and “we must protect the country” crap. Nothing about protecting the country from Russian influence. > > Remarkable how forgiving they can be. When the shoe is on that foot, they are. However, Hillary’s emails were going to force our Boy Scouts into gay Muslim marriages. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/76 "2017-02-14T13:28:59Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Several Republicans have been on CNN this morning. All seem very blasé about the whole thing. > Lots of talking of moving forward and “we must protect the country” crap. Nothing about protecting the country from Russian influence. > > Remarkable how forgiving they can be. It’s okay when Republicans do it. Can you imagine what they would have done to Obama? Or, God forbid, Hillary, had she been elected? Remember Bill Clinton’s run-in with Loretta Lynch at the airport-- that was clearly a conspiracy to undermine the entire gummint of these United States. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/77 "2017-02-14T14:15:24Z")
Sally Yates was the acting attorney General who warned the White House about Flynn, right? And she’s the one Trump fired for “betraying” him over the Muslim ban? She’s got to have a spot high in the Enemies List. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/78 "2017-02-14T14:20:49Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > [Flynn resigns amid controversy over Russia contacts](http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/13/politics/michael-flynn-white-house-national-security-adviser/index.html) Oh, look! Swamp draining! I was wondering when that would get started. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/79 "2017-02-14T14:25:23Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > When the shoe is on that foot, they are. However, Hillary’s emails were going to force our Boy Scouts into gay Muslim marriages. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It’s okay when Republicans do it. > > Can you imagine what they would have done to Obama? Or, God forbid, Hillary, had she been elected? Remember Bill Clinton’s run-in with Loretta Lynch at the airport-- that was clearly a conspiracy to undermine the entire gummint of these United States. These observations are, in my view, absolutely correct. The outrage over Secretary Clinton’s e-mail server was supposedly engendered (at least in large measure) on how hackable it was and how foreign powers must have compromised it. Here we have a situation in which secret information was clearly conveyed to foreign powers, not just as a matter of supposition. And the reaction is muted, or non-existent, from the Right. People chide me for pointing out liberal hypocrisy, although I’ve never understood why. A simple accusation of hypocrisy, to be sure, is simply a special case of an _ad hominem_ attack. But highlighting hypocrisy in the context of a specific debate issue is not _ad hominem_ nor is it _tu quoque_ (another accusation I get). Instead, it’s an observation that the speaker is concealing the real substance that animates his argument. We see it here, from the right wing. A congressman that inveighed against Clinton and then inveighs as strongly, or more so, against Flynn, can be fairly assumed to be sincere: he is against careless disclosure of national secrets. (As well he should be!) But a congressman who inveighs strongly against Clinton and finds no reason to speak against Flynn invites a different conclusion: his argument was never really about secrecy and the proper handling of classified material or U.S. secrets. His argument was actually that _Clinton needed to be attacked, with any believable pretext._ This is why debate so often fails to change minds here. The weight of Clinton’s supposed failures could be dissected and weighed, the possible harm and the lack of material violation of the law be exposed, and still no minds changed, _because the argument was never really that Clinton broke the law or endangered secrets._ The real argument was that Clinton needed to be attacked. For this reason, not _tu quoque_, I believe it’s valuable to identify hypocrisy when it appears. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/80 "2017-02-14T14:31:17Z")
[Kellyanne looks WAY less confident](http://www.today.com/news/kellyanne-conway-michael-flynn-he-knew-he-had-become-lightning-t108159) in her interview this morning. No smug smile as she tries unsuccessfully to spin this thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770.md?page=5)