# This Michael Flynn guy just can't stop committing treason **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770 "2017-02-13T19:21:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/101 "2017-02-14T16:11:43Z")
Don’t worry, Flynn was just giving Putin his tasty risotto recipe. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/102 "2017-02-14T16:17:41Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Trump himself tweeted: > > > [@](#): > > > > “The real story here is why are there so many illegal leaks coming out of Washington?” I dunno; maybe it has something to do with a Commander in Chief who apparently learned all he knows about OPSEC from Maxwell Smart? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/103 "2017-02-14T17:04:35Z")
Fox News and Breitbart comments sections are overflowing with “Obama moles within the DC establishment are undermining our Fine President” conspiracy theories, heavily laced with “Ho ho, delicious liberal tears” comments. Which seem sort of odd in this context. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/104 "2017-02-14T17:46:09Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Fox News and Breitbart comments sections are overflowing with “Obama moles within the DC establishment are undermining our Fine President” conspiracy theories, heavily laced with “Ho ho, delicious liberal tears” comments. Which seem sort of odd in this context. Weird. I don’t think many liberals are crying because flynn resigned. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/105 "2017-02-14T17:48:40Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Weird. I don’t think many liberals are crying because flynn resigned. I think they think we’re crying because Trump is being blackmailed by Moscow? Which they think is a cool thing somehow? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/106 "2017-02-14T18:01:40Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > I think they think we’re crying because Trump is being blackmailed by Moscow? Which they think is a cool thing somehow? And maybe it’s cool that Russia is violating treaties…? I have no idea anymore. Maybe delicious liberal horror would make more sense. (I posted this link on another thread) [https://nyti.ms/2lg8khs](https://nyti.ms/2lg8khs) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/107 "2017-02-14T18:07:33Z")
I think it’s along the lines of “Ha ha, we have enabled Russia to take over the country, and this has made you liberals sad, so that means we are WINNING!” ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/108 "2017-02-14T19:09:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > These observations are, in my view, absolutely correct. The outrage over Secretary Clinton’s e-mail server was supposedly engendered (at least in large measure) on how hackable it was and how foreign powers must have compromised it. > > Here we have a situation in which secret information was clearly conveyed to foreign powers, not just as a matter of supposition. > > And the reaction is muted, or non-existent, from the Right. > > People chide me for pointing out liberal hypocrisy, although I’ve never understood why. A simple accusation of hypocrisy, to be sure, is simply a special case of an _ad hominem_ attack. But highlighting hypocrisy in the context of a specific debate issue is not _ad hominem_ nor is it _tu quoque_ (another accusation I get). Instead, it’s an observation that the speaker is concealing the real substance that animates his argument. > > We see it here, from the right wing. A congressman that inveighed against Clinton and then inveighs as strongly, or more so, against Flynn, can be fairly assumed to be sincere: he is against careless disclosure of national secrets. (As well he should be!) > > But a congressman who inveighs strongly against Clinton and finds no reason to speak against Flynn invites a different conclusion: his argument was never really about secrecy and the proper handling of classified material or U.S. secrets. His argument was actually that _Clinton needed to be attacked, with any believable pretext._ > > This is why debate so often fails to change minds here. The weight of Clinton’s supposed failures could be dissected and weighed, the possible harm and the lack of material violation of the law be exposed, and still no minds changed, _because the argument was never really that Clinton broke the law or endangered secrets._ > > The real argument was that Clinton needed to be attacked. > > For this reason, not _tu quoque_, I believe it’s valuable to identify hypocrisy when it appears. It would be more convincing in re your bipartisan fairness, if you didn’t call attention to the balancing liberal hypocrisy, and congratulate yourself for being so fair, every time you point out conservative hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/109 "2017-02-14T19:10:53Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > It would be more convincing in re your bipartisan fairness, if you didn’t call attention to the balancing liberal hypocrisy, and congratulate yourself for being so fair, every time you point out conservative hypocrisy. In the entire post you quote, I don’t mention one example of liberal hypocrisy. Each example I offer is of conservative hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/110 "2017-02-14T19:34:33Z")
[Is it too much to ask that Conway and Spicer](http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/13/politics/trump-watch-live-coverage-week-4/index.html)agree on a single narrative? “Flynn resigned of his own volition” “Trump asked for Flynn’s resignation.” Make up your fucking minds. Also, if Sean Spicer calls Justin Trudeau “Joe” again, can I kick him in the nuts? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/111 "2017-02-14T19:36:25Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > It would be more convincing in re your bipartisan fairness, if you didn’t call attention to the balancing liberal hypocrisy, and congratulate yourself for being so fair, every time you point out conservative hypocrisy. I think you picked a bad example to make this point. Perhaps you need to read that post from **Bricker** again. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/112 "2017-02-14T21:52:33Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I dunno; maybe it has something to do with a Commander in Chief who apparently learned all he knows about OPSEC from Maxwell Smart? Funny you mention this, because I was just thinking of how Flynn could have really learned something from the somewhat mediocre Cohen Brothers movie, “Burn After Reading.” Krapotkin: Yes, this is Ilan Krapotkin, in the Russian Embassy, returning your call. Linda Litzke: Mr. Krapotkin? Is this a secure line? Krapotkin: Are you joking? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/113 "2017-02-14T22:07:52Z")
The Russian Embassy tweeted, “There have been no talks between #Russia and the #UnitedStates about the lifting of sanctions” Accompanied by a picture of hamburgers. ??? > **[Twitter Is Confused After Russia Weighs in on Michael Flynn Controversy with...](https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/twitter-confused-russia-weighs-michael-191450760.html)** > > The Russian Embassy to the U.S. sent out a mysterious tweet on Monday that appeared to link the controversy surrounding President Trump‘s embattled ex-national security adviser Michael Flynn to … a table full of hamburgers. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/114 "2017-02-14T22:11:49Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > [Is it too much to ask that Conway and Spicer](http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/13/politics/trump-watch-live-coverage-week-4/index.html)agree on a single narrative? “Flynn resigned of his own volition” “Trump asked for Flynn’s resignation.” > > Make up your fucking minds. > > Also, if Sean Spicer calls Justin Trudeau “Joe” again, can I kick him in the nuts? Why wait? As far as I’m concerned, you can kick him right now. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/115 "2017-02-14T22:16:42Z")
But which pocket does Trump keep them in? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/116 "2017-02-14T23:32:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s not. Neither of your examples is treason, except in a metaphoric sense. Giving away secrets is still a huge federal offense, both under “civilian” law and the UCMJ, and can get someone put away for a long long long time. I don’t know why Generals, who can possibly do the most damage always seem to get the lightest slaps on the wrist. A private or sergeant would be crucified. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/117 "2017-02-15T00:12:25Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Giving away secrets is still a huge federal offense, both under “civilian” law and the UCMJ, and can get someone put away for a long long long time. > > I don’t know why Generals, who can possibly do the most damage always seem to get the lightest slaps on the wrist. A private or sergeant would be crucified. RHIP. But I absolutely agree that a full investigation is warranted. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/118 "2017-02-15T00:17:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > RHIP. > > But I absolutely agree that a full investigation is warranted. I suppose RHIP holds true, but yes there needs to be an investigation. This is serious stuff. It is far more serious than Conway’s hawking merchandise (nevertheless an ethics violation) or whatever other lesser “distractions” come up. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/119 "2017-02-15T00:22:33Z")
There are just far, far too many connections to Russia for my comfort - all the way back to Manafort during the campaign. I don’t even know how all of these can be investigated. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770/120 "2017-02-15T00:30:24Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > There are just far, far too many connections to Russia for my comfort - all the way back to Manafort during the campaign. I don’t even know how all of these can be investigated. 1. Paul Manafort: Manafort ran Trump’s presidential campaign up until mid-August, at which time he resigned because of his Russian connections. Manafort reportedly earned $12.7 million for helping the pro-Russian party in Ukraine led by Yanukovych, a man now wanted in Ukraine for high treason. Manafort resigned from Trump’s campaign in mid-August due to his association with Yanukovych. However, Manafort still informally advises the Trump administration. 2. Carter Page: Page was an early foreign policy advisor to Trump. He worked in Russia for at least 3 years in the 2000s prior to joining Trump’s campaign. The Trump campaign falsely denied Page was an advisor after Page was accused of being a back-channel to Putin. Page continues to advocate closer ties to Russia. 3. Roger Stone: Stone served as an advisor to the Trump campaign. Previously, he was in a lobbying firm with Manafort. Stone admitted he served as a back channel between the Trump administration and Wikileaks. He even predicted the timing of the release of certain emails by Wikileaks. 4. Wikileaks & Russia hacking: The entire US intel community unanimously concluded that Russia hacked into the DNC email servers and Podesta’s email account. Russia gave these emails to Wikileaks. At one point, Trump tweeted that Russia should hack into more of Hillary’s emails. 5. Pro-Trump Russian propaganda: The US intel community also concluded that Russia ran a propaganda campaign with social media bots and trolls to help Trump. Altogether the intel community concluded that Russia took “unprecedented” efforts to help Trump win the presidential election. Note, some European intel officers think Russia aimed to undermine Hillary, rather than help Trump, as it seemed unlikely he would win the presidency. 6. Trump’s Changing Views on Ukraine and Crimea: Today, likely in response to the uproar over Flynn’s resignation, Spicer sternly told Russia to give Crimea back to Ukraine. This is at odds with Trump’s previous statement that “…the people of Crimea, from what I’ve heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were. And you have to look at that, also.” Also, back in August, the Trump campaign softened the GOP platform’s call to provide arms to Ukraine. The new platform said the US should merely provide “appropriate assistance.” 7. The Dossier: The former M16 agent Christopher Steele put together a 35 page dossier detailing the relationship between Russia and the Trump campaign. In addition to allegations of blackmail, the dossier contains allegations of bribery and collaboration. The dossier alleges Trump, represented by Carter Page, agreed to reduce Russian sanctions in exchange for a 19% stake in a Russian oil company, Rosneft. In December, John McCain, having received the dossier from a British official, passed it on to the FBI (who had previously received a copy from Steele). Some details in the dossier have been validated by US intel officials. 8. Trump’s praise of Putin: Trump has consistently praised Putin and Russia although he seems to know little about foreign policy. For months, Trump steadfastly refused to blame Russia for hacking Democrats’ emails, despite the intel community’s conclusions. Trump has acknowledged Putin is a killer, but argues America is no better. 9. Trump wants to eliminate sanctions: Trump has consistently and persistently advocated eliminating sanctions on Russia. (Note, McCain and Graham recently sponsored a bill that would limit the ability of Trump to remove sanctions imposed through an Obama executive order. Eliminating these sanctions no longer seems possible.) The Trump administration succeeded in relaxing one sanction of minor importance. 10. Flynn’s phone calls: Flynn called the Russian ambassador five times to discuss Obama’s new sanctions against Russia on the day they were announced. Russia decided not to retaliate to Obama’s actions in any way. Such non-retaliation is virtually unprecedented in US relations with Russia and the USSR. 11. Trump and Flynn’s calls: A day after Putin announced he would not retaliate, Trump praised Putin’s decision. Trump called Putin “very smart”. Weeks before Flynn resigned, the White House Counsel briefed Trump about the content of Flynn’s calls. Trump publicly feigned ignorance of the calls for weeks. 12. Rex Tillerson: In December, Trump appointed Tillerson as Secretary of State. Tillerson was CEO of Exxon, a company that signed deals with Russia thwarted by the 2014 sanctions. Exxon has an enormous financial incentive to remove these sanctions. But Tillerson’s Russian connections don’t stop there: reportedly Tillerson has had more “interactive time” with Putin than any other American except Kissinger. 13. Putin and Kremlin Celebrated When Trump Won: After Trump won the election, Putin publicly stated that he never stopped believing in Trump. Our intelligence agencies intercepted communications from Kremlin officials congratulating each other for his victory. AAAAANNNNNNNDDDD, As soon as Flynn resigned (or was told to quit?) Russian politicians went apeshit trying to defend him… until Putin got them in line, because he is already getting everything he wants… with Tillerson. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-michael-flynn-guy-just-cant-stop-committing-treason/779770.md?page=7)