Wow. You can’t look at a sad photo and comment or not comment on it without looking for what there is to argue about? If someone posts a link to a funny cat video, do you take that as a statement that cats are better than dogs, and dive into a heated debate?
Well, that’s why I made a point of saying “I DON’T KNOW” if the bomb was the right thing to do, rather than that it was or wasn’t. I just don’t know. But if somehow I was forced to go back in time and make a choice, and the only two choices were “invade Japan” or “drop the bombs”, I would say drop the bomb. I think if Japan had developed the bomb before we did, they probably would have used it on us. War sucks…I can’t really fault anyone for trying to win a war.
What I am not in favor of, is holding a grudge against Japan or its government because they have not sufficiently apologized or acknowledged their role in the war. It’s asking the impossible to expect a culture like Japan to voluntarily lose face, and that’s how they would see such an admission, as a loss of face. And moreover I don’t think Japanese society should be judged for their attitude about this. Because - as I have noted - their culture was sequestered from the world for hundreds of years and it just isn’t comparable to a country like Germany.
1940s Japan was not sequestered. They were industrial and they even had professional baseball. Japans attitudes toward the war have made it impossible for healing to occur. The Japanese are still rabidly hated in places like Korea and China. The same is not true about Germany who owned up to their past and helped form the EU. Regional cooperation is vital right now in eastern Asia but Japanese failure to apologize for its past is making this difficult.
Of course 1940s Japan was not sequestered - but the culture they shared, which includes their attitudes about outsiders, evolved over hundreds of years. Yes, they had baseball, but they were still very different, culturally. (As they still are.) Of course they are not a monolithic entity but it’s impossible to discuss geopolitics without making generalizations.
As for regional cooperation in Eastern Asia, please - Japanese failure to apologize, or Japanese anything, is the least of the issues at hand. Japanese cooperation with the Philippines, for instance, is excellent and has been for decades. It’s China that has consistently been problematic.
And I don’t have any judgment on Chinese culture either, nor can I fault their government for trying to advance their own interests. That’s what human beings do. But it’s not Japan that is causing problems at the moment.
No, this kind of claim that such things are “impossible” for Japanese people is just wrong. “Losing face” is not some kind of magical mojo that’s beyond the ken of Westerners. It’s a metaphor for pride, for respect. Of course there are differences among cultures, but deep down we’re all human beings, human nature is not so different.
If you are the aggressor in a massive war, commit horrific crimes killing millions of innocent people, and even when the end is inevitable you stubbornly refuse to surrender until nuclear weapons are dropped on your people and you face total annihilation - of course you lose face! Of course your pride is utterly destroyed. Of course you lose respect. If you’re not losing face under these circumstances, there’s something deeply wrong with the way you’re processing what just happened.
But they’re just not going to voluntarily ADMIT this to the rest of the world. It’s not going to happen. So the best tactic for all the rest of us, is to just move on.
Which is fine, but it’s also not cool for anyone else to pretend that the US was the party at fault here, just for the sake of the Japanese ego.
I mean, what WAS the point of posting the photo? I’m with Alessan- barring a few answers of “Yep, that’s sad” type stuff, anyone posting a thread with a photo like that HAS to be aiming for a deliberately confrontational thread with the US portrayed as the aggressor/unfair one.
I posted that photo because I thought it was deeply moving and wanted to share it. If you can’t appreciate the photo without getting politically triggered, please start your own thread.
It is moving but it is also political. Why not be happy that it moved lots of people? Just because they werent moved the same way that you were isnt a bad thing. Its a sign of good art.
I don’t think the photo is political actually. Unless you believe that literally every photo is political. Frankly I consider it in poor taste to react to a photo of a child mourning their sibling by indulging in a political rant.
Suppose someone posted a photo of a child at the grave of their parent in Arlington Cemetery. That itself is more political than this photo but it would still be in poor taste for someone to react to that by going on a long rant about the numerous crimes that the US has committed over the centuries.
Logically, that’s a claim that this is the least political picture that anyone could possibly post.
There’s some top notch reasoning here too. Videos of cats aren’t controversial, therefore a photo of the aftermath of the deployment of a nuclear weapon shouldn’t lead to debate.
Look, to some degree I agree with you. I saw your OP, and I was not initially going to post any comment, because what can you really add about that heart-rending image in itself.
But then Lamoral made an extensive post laying out how he thinks the Japanese have been treated unfairly. And I think his perspective is completely inaccurate, so I challenged it.
But again, I’m not blaming Lamoral for kicking of the political debate here. Really, what do you expect? If you post a picture of the terrible aftermath of an event - not a natural disaster, but one deliberately cause by people - you can’t reasonably expect to bar any subsequent reflection and debate on how and why such a terrible thing happened. Isn’t it important to reflect and try to make sure this doesn’t happen again? And obviously that’s likely to be controversial.
If you don’t like it, then maybe stick to posting videos of cats.
What is your general principle here? Every time a photo is posted which is linked to some war the only valid response is to have a heated political debate about that war? Even on a forum which is not devoted to political debates? I can’t even begin to fathom the sheer lunacy and extremism of this position.
If you felt someone else was making a political statement you disagreed with, the appropriate response would have been to start your own debate thread with perhaps a link here.
[Moderating again]
This thread is about one specific photograph depicting one specific incident. Yes, of course there’s a lot of history that leads up to that incident. But that’s not the subject of this thread. If you want to debate the merits of the use of atomic bombs, or various nations’ culpability before, during, and after the World Wars, those would be perfectly legitimate topics of discussion… for Great Debates. Not for Cafe Society.
What kind of comments should I make?
Eh, I’ve seen sadder.
That is of course up to you. But off the top of my head, you could analyze the photo, or the description which IMO is itself a powerful piece of writing. Or post similar photos that have moved you. Or connect it to works of literature or film about similar incidents.
Meh. I can find more than 20 sadder pictures in 5 seconds of googling, if you know the right terms.
“Rape of Nanking Photos”, for instance…
20 pictures in 5 seconds! You, sir, are truly amazing…
This isn’t some kind of competition and there are obviously lots of pictures of sad and horrifying events. I think what stands out in this photo to me is the narrative context partly provided by the photographer’s comments.
First is the sense that this boy is now truly alone, his brother was possibly the last family he had left. Second is the unique horror of a small boy having to carry his brother’s corpse on his back perhaps over a long distance. And finally there is the boy’s heroic attempt to maintain his composure perhaps out of respect for his kid brother:
"The boy stood there straight without moving, watching the flames. He was biting his lower lip so hard that it shone with blood. The flame burned low like the sun going down. The boy turned around and walked silently away”
The credit goes to the Google developers … and my World History lecturers.
It’s not a competition - but posting “the saddest thing I’ve ever seen” and then “post similar photos” is an open invitation to correct your seeming lack of scope. And it’s not even the saddest thing you’ve seen, apparently. It’s the saddest thing you’ve read, with illustration. Is it not as sad without the narrative?
Hell, that link was just to a series of directly-related sad events. I find this photo even sadder. Especially for the aftermath. Now there’s a narrative for you.