# This post could drive you mad **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 18, 2000, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868 "2000-05-18T15:23:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2000, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/1 "2000-05-18T15:23:59Z")
I recently finished reading Carl Sagan’s book “The Demon-Haunted World”. In it he recalls as a child when he read Martin Gardner’s book “Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science”. One of the items he remembers is a bit on how L. Ron Hubbard claimed that he had written a manuscript that would drive it’s readers insane. I’ve checked my local library for Mr. Gardner’s book, but no luck. Do any of the Teeming Millions know more about the story behind L. Ron’s claim. Publicity stunt? April Fools Gag? Or was he talking about his novels? I also have a vague memory of this idea being used in a movie. Was it? Or have I gone mad? ---
**Author:** ![Nurlman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Nurlman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nurlman)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2000, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/2 "2000-05-18T15:32:38Z")
I know that the Scientologists have argued against the public dissemination of their written materials on the grounds that people who are not mentally prepared (through Scientology auditing) could be harmed by the revelations in them. Maybe that’s what the reference was to. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2000, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/3 "2000-05-18T15:54:16Z")
The movie “The Mouth of Madness” had a subplot about people going insane by reading a book. As far as I know this had nothing to do with L. Ron Hubbard. It may not even be recalling the name of the movie correctly now that I think about it. It was either “The Mouth of Madness” or a movie with a completely different name that came out around the same time as “The Mouth of Madness” I hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![avalongod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@avalongod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avalongod)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2000, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/4 "2000-05-18T16:07:53Z")
One must remember that L. Ron Hubbard was not entirely possessed of all his marbles himself. Remember this is the FICTION writer who founded a religion. The elevator ain’t reaching the top floor here folks. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2000, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/5 "2000-05-18T17:28:15Z")
Something similar to this was in the “Night Gallery” sketch “Return of the Sorceror.” Bill Bixby played someone who had been asked to translate some ancient tome (possibly even written by Al Azif). His sponsor said that everyone else who had tried had stopped, because it was too frightening. Isn’t this what drove Abdul al-Hazred mad, thus earning him the moniker “Al Azif,” the transcription of the “Necronomicon?” ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2000, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/6 "2000-05-18T17:48:08Z")
Just checking in. **Nurlman** - Good point. I hadn’t thought of that. I don’t _think_ it’s what was meant, but I dunno. Does anyone have any more information? **Lance Turbo** - Great. I’m pretty sure this is the movie I’m thinking of. I checked it out on the Internet Movie Database and while they say nothing about Hubbard, they do credit Lovecraft as an inspiration. Probably the same story that inspired the “Night Gallery” episode **Mjollnir** mentioned. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![TheProblemForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/848f3c/32.png) [@TheProblemForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheProblemForce)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2000, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/7 "2000-05-18T17:50:09Z")
The film is “In The Mouth Of Madness,” directed by John Carpenter and starring Sam Neill. It features a Stephen King-esque horror writer whose latest novel drives people crazy and brings about the end of the world. Don’t know anything about Hubbard writing something that would drive you crazy, but I do know he claimed anyone who read the secret writings of the Church of Scientology without being extensively “audited” (i.e., brainwashed) first would catch pneumonia and die. And then there’s that Monty Python sketch about the joke that’s so funny that anyone who hears it dies. . . ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2000, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/8 "2000-05-18T17:53:16Z")
Just checking in. **Nurlman** - Good point. I hadn’t thought of that. I don’t _think_ it’s what was meant, but I dunno. Does anyone have any more information? **Lance Turbo** - Great. I’m pretty sure this is the movie I’m thinking of. I checked it out on the Internet Movie Database and while they say nothing about Hubbard, they do credit Lovecraft as an inspiration. Probably the same story that inspired the “Night Gallery” episode **Mjollnir** mentioned. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2000, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/9 "2000-05-18T17:59:50Z")
I read that too when I was a kid, in a french book about “supernatural” events. I found a link that describes it! [Martin Gardner Evaluates Dianetics](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/gardner/) > [@](#): > > The amazing story behind Excalibur was revealed by Arthur J. Cox in the July, 1952, issue of Science-Fiction Advertiser, a magazine published by science-fantasy fans in Glendale, California. In 1948, Hubbard told the California fans that during an operation performed on him for injuries received while in the Navy, he was actually dead for eight minutes. As Cox tells it, “Hubbard realized that while he was dead, he had received a tremendous inspiration, a great Message which he must impart to others. He sat at his typewriter for six days and nights and nothing came out – then, Excalibur emerged. Excalibur contains the basic metaphysical secrets of the universe. He sent it around to some publishers; they all hastily rejected it… He locked it away in a bank vault. But then, later, he informed us that he would try publishing a ‘diluted’ version of it… Dianetics, I was recently told by a friend of Hubbard’s, is based upon one chapter of Excalibur.” > > On Hubbard’s advertising sheets, the blurb for Excalibur is worth quoting. “Mr. Hubbard wrote this work in 1938. When four of the first fifteen people who read it went insane, Mr. Hubbard withdrew it and placed it in a vault where it remained until now. Copies to selected readers only and then on signature. Released only on sworn statement not to permit other readers to read it. Contains data not to be released during Mr. Hubbard’s stay on earth. The complete fast formula of clearing. The secret not even Dianetics disclosed. Facsimile of original, individually typed for manuscript buyer. Gold bound and locked. Signed by author. Very limited. Per copy … $1,500.00.” ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2000, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/10 "2000-05-18T18:10:11Z")
Great Arnold!! Thanks a bunch. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Nurlman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Nurlman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nurlman)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2000, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/11 "2000-05-18T22:45:19Z")
Obviously, Arnold nailed the passaage you were looking for. But it’s interesting to see that L. Ron held on to that same idea-- the manuscript so revealing it would drive you mad-- and continued to assert it when devising Scientology. The guy certainly had a flair for the dramatic. Here’s a snippet from on 70’s era-Scientologist’s [tell-all](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/pignotti/#mind) about that belief: > [@](#): > > A word of caution: Scientologists are told that if hey see the OT III materials before they are “ready”, they will go insane, not be able to sleep, get sick and eventually die, and they believe it! For this reason, I could not suggest revealing OT III materials to a person during an exit counselling if they haven’t seen them, not because it is true, but because the suggestion that they will go insane might act upon them as a post-hypnotic suggestion and they might respond to it by actually “getting sick” or even going insane. The “OT III” materials in question are the ones that explain the basic cosmology of the Scientology “religion.” They explain that all of humanity’s problems are traceable back to Xemu, the evil Galactic tyrant, who rounded up the excess population in the galaxy 75 million years ago, flew them to volcanoes on Earth, nuked them, and then trapped their souls in anti-freeze. The restless souls attach themselves to us and cause all our mental and physical problems today. Want to take the risk of shorting out your own noggin with this information? The mind-blowing OT III materials can be found [here](http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/upper-levels/ot3.html). ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2000, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/12 "2000-05-18T22:56:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > I recently finished reading Carl Sagan’s book “The Demon-Haunted World”. In it he recalls as a child when he read Martin Gardner’s book “Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science”. One of the items he remembers is a bit on how L. Ron Hubbard claimed that he had written a manuscript that would drive it’s readers insane. > > He did and it does. It’s called dianetics. > I’ve checked my local library for Mr. Gardner’s book, but no luck. Do any of the Teeming Millions know more about the story behind L. Ron’s claim. Publicity stunt? April Fools Gag? Or was he talking about his novels? > > I also have a vague memory of this idea being used in a movie. Was it? Or have I gone mad? > > \*\* ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2000, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/13 "2000-05-18T23:50:00Z")
Oh come on folks, if a person could write such a book he would become insane himself. duh. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/14 "2000-05-19T00:13:05Z")
I myself don’t think Hubbard’s nuts. I also don’t think he believes anything he spouts as a religion. All he wants is to scam the Teeming Millions. His book will only drive you mad if you believe the tenets of Scientology after reading it. If you do, you’re not only crazy but stupid as well. BTW, the Necronomicon isn’t a real book. All of those circulating around titled that were written in contemporary times (even more recent than Lovecraft’s era: The 1920s) by authors who wanted to cash in on the book’s reputation in certain circles. Do a good search on ‘necronomicon’ and you’ll find [http://www.hplovecraft.com/creation/necron/](http://www.hplovecraft.com/creation/necron/) which is a good site about the facts of the issue. But if you want to read a version of how it might look if real, go to [http://www.eerie.fr/~alquier/HPL/azif/n\_index.html](http://www.eerie.fr/~alquier/HPL/azif/n_index.html) and view it online. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/15 "2000-05-19T01:21:47Z")
Thanks a heap **Nurlman**. I’m glad to see the Teeming Millions come through with such flying colors. I had heard much of the Xemu story before but thse web sites are great. L. Ron sure had some weird ideas. Thanks again. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/16 "2000-05-19T03:00:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > I recently finished reading Carl Sagan’s book “The Demon-Haunted World”. In it he recalls as a child when he read Martin Gardner’s book “Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science”. One of the items he remembers is a bit on how L. Ron Hubbard claimed that he had written a manuscript that would drive it’s readers insane. > \*\* Yep. It’s called Dianetics. ---
**Author:** ![dpr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8797f3/32.png) [@dpr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dpr)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/17 "2000-05-19T04:16:07Z")
Fish. ---
**Author:** ![Grendel69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7bcc69/32.png) [@Grendel69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grendel69)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/18 "2000-05-19T04:16:15Z")
Just a guess, but methinks that Hubbard was inspired by the Necronomicon. He was really interested in the occult and satanism and even practiced a lot of it. He hung out with some of Aleister Crowley’s disciples. Try… [http://www.factnet.com](http://www.factnet.com) they have a lot of interesting stuff on why scientology is crap and evidence that Hubbard was emulating a lot of occultists at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Grendel69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7bcc69/32.png) [@Grendel69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grendel69)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/19 "2000-05-19T04:17:41Z")
> **[FACTnet](https://www.factnetglobal.org/)** > > Open Education, Free Speech and Public Dialog on Topics of Important Public Interest. is actually the correct address. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868/20 "2000-05-19T08:33:02Z")
Are you kidding. Elron wrote tomes up tomes that could drive you to madness or suicide. His low-grade pulp science fiction seems to do the job, the film versions only makes one very bored and angry that their 8 bucks is now lining $cientologist’s pockets. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-post-could-drive-you-mad/19868.md?page=2)