# This POTUS race is about Well-Packaged Lies vs the Halting Truth **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [June 28, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455 "2024-06-28T20:21:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/41 "2024-06-29T07:15:03Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > A head-cold can affect performance. But not that much. I can confirm that it indeed can. When I get a cold, I get spacey. Like really airheaded. And cold meds make the effect worse. Before I retired, my staff (one person in particular) found it amusing. Said it evened the playing field. I mean, I can have trouble forming sentences, finding words. Combine that with having trouble breathing. I can be a mess. And I’m talking about a bad cold, not the flu. And I don’t stutter. I don’t know why colds impact me that way. They don’t my wife. Maybe you’re like my wife and that’s why it seems so implausible to you. And I get that nobody cares how colds kick me in the ass. But this is an instance where an anecdote can win an argument that collapses with a single counter-example. Yes, colds can affect performance that much. He should have postponed the debate. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/42 "2024-06-29T12:11:14Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I mean, I can have trouble forming sentences, finding words. Combine that with having trouble breathing. I can be a mess. And I’m talking about a bad cold, not the flu. And I don’t stutter. OK, colds affect you very badly. This isn’t the first time Joe has had trouble forming sentences, and had rambling incoherent points. I think you’re fooling yourself if you think that debate performance was strictly from a cold. Look, I’m going to keep supporting him. And I started this thread because I wanted to point out that the substance of what Trump was saying should be enough to sink Trump, even in the face of Biden’s stammering delivery. I hope I’m right. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/43 "2024-06-29T12:11:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I don’t see any posts in the watchalong thread with your name on them. Good for you. Thanks for the input. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/44 "2024-06-29T13:09:37Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > OK, colds affect you very badly. This isn’t the first time Joe has had trouble forming sentences, and had rambling incoherent points. I think you’re fooling yourself if you think that debate performance was strictly from a cold. I do think his age is a factor. IMO, Joe has the normal age-related impact on his cognition, which is not dementia. I’ve seen the change since he was inaugurated. Combine that with his stutter, and a shitty cold could make him look as he did. But I believe his mind is still sound, and that it was an awful idea to go ahead with the debate when his head was in a fog and he struggled to breathe. He might have soldiered through it in his forties, but not now. Obviously, just IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/45 "2024-06-29T13:14:04Z")
I liked the golf argument. (1) I don’t know why I have to point out the obvious, but it wasn’t just about the game of golf. It was about the “who’s old?” issue. Biden is more physically active than Trump (has Trump ever rode a bicycle as an adult?), and Trump’s frequent golfing is no sign of vibrancy because he always uses a cart. Biden called him out on his false vigor. (2) It was one of the few times, if not the only time, Biden got Trump’s goat. One of the critiques in the debate-watching thread is that Biden and his team weren’t ready for Trump but should’ve known his typical behavior. But except for spewing a parade of lies and false superlatives, the debate **wasn’t** Trump’s typical behavior. He’s infamously thin-skinned and usually lashes out at any perceived insult. His prep team somehow convinced him to channel his lashing-out energy into making his talking points and answering one of the questions even if not the most recent one. While Biden clearly tried to get under Trump’s skin more than once – he didn’t point out the convicted felon thing just for fun – Trump rose to the bait on the golf thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/46 "2024-06-29T14:36:58Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > This isn’t the first time Joe has had trouble forming sentences, and had rambling incoherent points Is it first time he has had a cold, cause damn, I should be so lucky. Anyway, didn’t he ramble sometimes even when he was vice-president? ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/47 "2024-06-29T15:13:35Z")
> [@Mikkel](#): > > Anyway, didn’t he ramble sometimes even when he was vice-president? Yes, he’s always been a gaffe-machine. But go back and watch the VP debate from 2012. The change in him from then to now is astounding. He used to make coherent and articulate arguments on the fly. He’s no longer able to do that. I don’t think he has dementia, btw. I think he’s aging and losing his verbal abilities, but he’s still lucid. He’s in the here and now, and understands policy, etc. But he’s unable to communicate it on the fly… ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/48 "2024-06-29T15:36:39Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > I liked the golf argument. > > (1) I don’t know why I have to point out the obvious, but it wasn’t just about the game of golf. It was about the “who’s old?” issue. Biden is more physically active than Trump (has Trump ever rode a bicycle as an adult?), and Trump’s frequent golfing is no sign of vibrancy because he always uses a cart. Biden called him out on his false vigor. > > (2) It was one of the few times, if not the only time, Biden got Trump’s goat. > > One of the critiques in the debate-watching thread is that Biden and his team weren’t ready for Trump but should’ve known his typical behavior. > > But except for spewing a parade of lies and false superlatives, the debate **wasn’t** Trump’s typical behavior. He’s infamously thin-skinned and usually lashes out at any perceived insult. His prep team somehow convinced him to channel his lashing-out energy into making his talking points and answering one of the questions even if not the most recent one. > > While Biden clearly tried to get under Trump’s skin more than once – he didn’t point out the convicted felon thing just for fun – Trump rose to the bait on the golf thing. They had to change how Biden gets on Air Force One. I’m not going to take any bets on who is physically better. Trump is fat and out of shape. Biden shuffles like an extra on _The Walking Dead._ This is not a contest that anyone would win. ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/49 "2024-06-29T16:00:43Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Biden shuffles like an extra on _The Walking Dead._ Remember this one? Four years ago. I doubt Trump would do better today. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/6bqvGXGN4DA/maxresdefault.jpg "Trump's ramp walk: a "slippery" slope | AFP") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqvGXGN4DA) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/50 "2024-06-29T16:01:48Z")
> [@Mikkel](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Biden shuffles like an extra on _The Walking Dead._ > > Remember this one? Four years ago. I doubt Trump would do better today. > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqvGXGN4DA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqvGXGN4DA) Strange game. The only way to win is not to play. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/51 "2024-06-30T12:54:22Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > But I believe his mind is still sound, and that it was an awful idea to go ahead with the debate when his head was in a fog and he struggled to breathe. He might have soldiered through it in his forties, but not now. The debate was a bad idea, period. Team Biden wanted this debate. They wanted it this early. They wanted these rules. They got everything they asked for, and then Biden face-planted in this debate. Whether it was a cold or something else, his performance was awful, and people need to admit that. And I know Trump did nothing but spews lies in the debate. That might be our only saving grace here, if enough undecideds realize how much Trump lied the other night. He served up a thousand soft-balls that the 2012 version of Biden would have swatted out of the park. But we’re in 2024. This version of Joe is greatly diminished compared to 2012, or even 2016…and even diminished from 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/52 "2024-06-30T16:25:58Z")
I suspect that a year from now he’ll be an even poorer debater, and a cold will impact him even more. But his mind will still be sound, he’ll continue to make good decisions, and he’ll get things done. It is a fantasy that some have that replacing Joe saves the day. It hands Trump victory. Whatever damage the debate did, we need to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![TheTooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/919ad9/32.png) [@TheTooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheTooth)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/53 "2024-06-30T17:19:39Z")
I would go with whichever guy tried to buy Greenland the least during his tenure as President. You have two options, the head of a party that is capable of governing or the head of a party that is not. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/54 "2024-06-30T17:52:23Z")
> [@TheTooth](#): > > I would go with whichever guy tried to buy Greenland the least during his tenure as President. I don’t mean this as a personal attack/criticism in the least, but this “I would this” “I would that” attitude encapsulates what’s wrong with much of the Biden camp, namely, the projection that because “I” (a Biden supporter, probably someone more progressive than the average American voter) would support Biden no matter what, it therefore means that the _average American voter_ will as well. Just because **you** may feel that way doesn’t mean the **electorate at large** does. We don’t need polls of what **Dopers** would do if the choice were a halting, hoarse, confused, slow, befuddled Biden vs. Trump - we all know the choice here on this board would be like 99% to 1%. But the average American voter may be swayed. The fact that we aren’t swayed doesn’t mean they won’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/55 "2024-07-01T16:00:19Z")
Judging Biden by how he walks and talks, he’d be terrible for Presidency: The TV Show. But he’s been a pretty good real- life president. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455/56 "2024-07-02T17:24:24Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Whatever damage the debate did, we need to fix it. OK, but how do you fix it? I think the way to fix it is to show that the debate was a “one-off”, a situation where he felt sick and it impacted his ability to think and communicate. There are reports that it was not a one-off, but part of a pattern that’s been occurring over the last year or so. [https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4751653-carl-bernstein-biden-trump-debate-anderson-cooper-cnn/](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4751653-carl-bernstein-biden-trump-debate-anderson-cooper-cnn/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-potus-race-is-about-well-packaged-lies-vs-the-halting-truth/1003455.md?page=2)