# This pro-Hillary rant is cathartic for me **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 3, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026 "2016-02-03T04:44:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/21 "2016-02-03T15:54:27Z")
BTW, a nonwhite male politician could not get away with being shouty and having unkempt hair either. So what people are finding so charming about Bernie Sanders is emblematic of a very specifically white male privilege. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/22 "2016-02-03T15:54:29Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Cite on Warren shouting, with unkempt hair? [Liz Warren is passionate and authentic](http://www.vox.com/2015/6/2/8700177/elizabeth-warren-video-viral). I’m not sure what hair has to do with anything. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/23 "2016-02-03T15:57:38Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > It’s somewhat true (the OPs point). I was watching CNN on Iowa Caucus night and in Hillary’s speech she started to get a bit loud (the “I believe we will…” part) and the commentators mentioned that she seemed too angry, to which I was like, wait, wait… Sanders’ normal speaking voice seems to be twice as angry sounding as that. And in one of the debates, Bernie even had the gall (or should I say chutzpah) to chide her for shouting! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/24 "2016-02-03T16:09:05Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > BTW, a nonwhite male politician could not get away with being shouty and having unkempt hair either. So what people are finding so charming about Bernie Sanders is emblematic of a very specifically white male privilege. Exactly why some of our most famous African American leaders in this country–Jesse Jackson, Martin Luther King, Al Sharpton, for example–are so famous for being soft-spoken. This is a super duper ultra scooper lame attempt at a slam against Sanders. Stipulating everything you say, the correct response is not to freak out when a woman raises her voice or doesn’t do her hair; if you respond to this by sneering at Sanders, you’re completely and totally missing the point of discussing privilege. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/25 "2016-02-03T16:12:22Z")
I agree with the linked rant that there does seem to be a lot of attacks on Hillary that she wouldn’t be getting if she wasn’t a woman, and it sucks. The “Bernie bros” are not a majority of the Bernie supporters, but they are loud. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > It’s somewhat true (the OPs point). I was watching CNN on Iowa Caucus night and in Hillary’s speech she started to get a bit loud (the “I believe we will…” part) and the commentators mentioned that she seemed too angry, to which I was like, wait, wait… Sanders’ normal speaking voice seems to be twice as angry sounding as that. It reminds me of when Obama was first running, and how he had to be as calm and cool as possible so that he wouldn’t scare off people by being an “angry black man.” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/26 "2016-02-03T16:15:41Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Cite on Warren shouting, with unkempt hair? You really think what is holding her back that she can’t get away with looking like a slob (I can probably find some videos of Warren shouting at least as loudly as Sanders during her run for the senate)? AFAICT Bernie is the only dude in politics that gets away looking like he slept in his suit and just got out of bed. The criticism of Hillary from the left isn’t her appearance OR her volume. It isn’t her gender no matter how much you want to pretend that her gender is the root cause of all the criticism, its that she is a centrist. I LIKE that she is a centrist, but the Democratic primary voter skews left. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/27 "2016-02-03T16:20:17Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Cite on turning of the Treasury over to the rich? > > And why “At least”? Cite on ‘vague “free candy for all”’ The problem I have with the blog post in the OP, is that while sexism, both direct and institutional is a real and pervasive issue that any female running for office anywhere has to deal with in varying degrees, there is a large contingent for whom all possible critiques of Clinton are a direct cause of sexism, and for whom not supporting Clinton for president is equivalent to being sexist. Saying that Sanders is shouty, angry, unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky, simplistic and doesn’t understand how politics actually works is just, you know, stating facts in evidence. Saying that Clinton is shouting, lacks leadership skills and doesn’t know how to politic is sexist because reasons. To quote from the link in the OP: > [@](#): > > I’M SICK OF HAVING TO QUALIFY AND SEE YOUR SIDE AND RESPECT YOUR OPINION WHEN I FUCKING DON’T AND YOU FUCKING DON’T RIGHT BACK. Ok, so don’t pretend that you’ve got some morally or intellectually superior position, or that you’re interested in learning more about either candidate in a mentally rigorous fashion. You don’t want to see the other fucking side. Gotcha. > [@](#): > > AND MOST OF YOU LIKE HER POLICIES AND PLANS TOO BECAUSE A) THEY’RE BASICALLY FUCKING OBAMA AND B) THEY’RE NOT THAT FUCKING DIFFERENT THAN FUCKING BERNIE. Not all Democrats (or those who might vote for a democrat) love Obama. And, Bernie and Hillary are wildly different in many significant areas. The OP himself as well as the blog point out a number of them. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/28 "2016-02-03T16:21:34Z")
Hillary’s climate positions have been mocked as “silly” by leading climate scientists. Rather than a financial transaction tax, she supports an ‘HFT’ tax, but one that only taxes a small fraction of high-frequency trades; experts say it would really raise “no” money. So, yeah, if you do HFT, work in health insurace, or work for BP, she may be your girl. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/29 "2016-02-03T16:23:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Exactly why some of our most famous African American leaders in this country–Jesse Jackson, Martin Luther King, Al Sharpton, for example–are so famous for being soft-spoken. There have been many articles indicating that Obama was highly cognizant to not to come across as an “angry black man” while running for President. > **[Obama and the “Angry Black Man” Factor](https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/obama-and-the-angry-black-man-factor)** > > For years now, there has been a largely unquestioned belief that the sight of an African-American politician getting angry, even one as mainstream as … > **[Why Obama doesn't dare become the 'angry black man' - CNN.com](https://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/06/08/rage.obama/)** > > Here's proof that President Obama has indeed ushered in a new era in race relations. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/30 "2016-02-03T16:33:24Z")
It almost sounds like she’s saying that liberals like Sanders _because_ he has messy hair. While I wouldn’t be surprised to find three people in the country for whom that’s true, for the vast majority of us, we like him for completely unrelated reasons, and don’t give a damn about his hair. If Sanders had the exact same message but neat hair, then we’d feel the same way about him. It’s not like “getting away with having messy hair” gives him some sort of big advantage. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/31 "2016-02-03T16:33:25Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > BTW, a nonwhite male politician could not get away with being shouty and having unkempt hair either. So what people are finding so charming about Bernie Sanders is emblematic of a very specifically white male privilege. This is a pathetic attempt at ass-backwards social justice points. Everyone should be allowed to speak strongly and firmly; but you’re implying we should hush men as the kyriarchy hush women and the help. And also, no, it isn’t really a white male privilege. Look at how the media tarred Howard Dean as a “maniac” for one nervous speech to supporters. Bernie talks like an old man who’s a little hard of hearing and grew up in Brooklyn. He speaks a little loudly and has a non-elite accent. He’s actually not “shouting.” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/32 "2016-02-03T16:43:36Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > And in one of the debates, Bernie even had the gall (or should I say chutzpah) to chide her for shouting! Well. You managed to put that in a very snide, WASPy, and ambiguously racist way. Congratulations. [muted golf clap] ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/33 "2016-02-03T16:45:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It almost sounds like she’s saying that liberals like Sanders _because_ he has messy hair. While I wouldn’t be surprised to find three people in the country for whom that’s true, for the vast majority of us, we like him for completely unrelated reasons, and don’t give a damn about his hair. If Sanders had the exact same message but neat hair, then we’d feel the same way about him. It’s not like “getting away with having messy hair” gives him some sort of big advantage. I don’t think anyone necessarily would say that they like him because of his messy hair, but there is a common opinion that he is more real and authentic and his messy hair and suits go with that image. And that compares to the opinion that Clinton is fake or calculating or inauthentic. And that ignores the tightrope that Clinton and every female politician has to walk that male politicians don’t have to deal with. Just like Obama had to walk a tightrope that white politicians don’t have to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/34 "2016-02-03T17:03:19Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > And in one of the debates, Bernie even had the gall (or should I say chutzpah) to chide her for shouting! > [@foolsguinea](#): > > Well. You managed to put that in a very snide, WASPy, and ambiguously racist way. Congratulations. [muted golf clap] No no no . . . see, Clinton supporters are the victims here. Now you’re playing the anti-Semitic card like only a privileged white misogynist could. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/35 "2016-02-03T17:22:40Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I don’t think anyone necessarily would say that they like him because of his messy hair, but there is a common opinion that he is more real and authentic and his messy hair and suits go with that image. And that compares to the opinion that Clinton is fake or calculating or inauthentic. And that ignores the tightrope that Clinton and every female politician has to walk that male politicians don’t have to deal with. Just like Obama had to walk a tightrope that white politicians don’t have to deal with. YES. The people who are asserting that Bernie would do just as well if he looked and talked like an anchorman are not being honest either with us or themselves. His demeanor and unkempt appearance are essential elements of his schtick. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/36 "2016-02-03T17:36:14Z")
I find Hillary to be an unlikeable person _because I think she’s very fake_. I’d like her a lot more if I thought she actually believed what she was telling me and did so with conviction. Why do you think she has the reputation of being dishonest? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/37 "2016-02-03T17:41:29Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I find Hillary to be an unlikeable person _because I think she’s very fake_. I’d like her a lot more if I thought she actually believed what she was telling me and did so with conviction. Why do you think she has the reputation of being dishonest? Because she’s got a lot of enemies? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/38 "2016-02-03T17:45:37Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > No no no . . . see, Clinton supporters are the victims here. Now you’re playing the anti-Semitic card like only a privileged white misogynist could. Yeah pretty sure Jewish guys are more privileged than white women on the progressive stack. Being clear doesn’t make you a person of color. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/39 "2016-02-03T17:45:58Z")
I’m not convinced that Clinton would do worse if she were more “real.” Her biggest detraction is seeming more fake than any other candidate. It’s not as if there aren’t women in politics who don’t come of less polished. I don’t deny that there is a type of sexism where women have to be perfect when men aren’t, but how much of that is in play here, and how much of it is the fact that Clinton and Sanders have completely different brand identities? When your tone is always measured and calculated, you will seem much angrier when you do actually raise your voice. I mean, that popular image of Howard Dean being too crazy seems to have derailed his campaign back in 2008–even if it was perfectly understandable in context. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/40 "2016-02-03T17:49:31Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > YES. The people who are asserting that Bernie would do just as well if he looked and talked like an anchorman are not being honest either with us or themselves. His demeanor and unkempt appearance are essential elements of his schtick. Well, that was an easy mindread. No chance that people who have, for decades, been calling for the US to follow its peers into a more socialist government are legitimately interested in a politician who calls for the US to follow its peers into a more socialist government. No, we must be crazy hair fans! :rolleyes: There is some serious sexist criticism of Clinton based on her appearance–I’ll grant you that. But when I criticize Clinton for inauthenticity, I’m thinking of her claims about dodging sniper fire; I’m thinking of her suggestion that wiping computer servers involves a washcloth. I find her to be deeply insincere even for a politician. It won’t stop me from voting for her, because I also think she’s profoundly intelligent and a master of political schmoozing and will get stuff done, and she’s miles better than any Republican. But suggesting that critiques of Clinton are **necessarily** founded in sexism, or that support for Sanders is **necessarily** founded in sexism, is intellectually lazy, fundamentally dishonest, and super duper lame. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026.md?page=3)