# This pro-Hillary rant is cathartic for me **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 3, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026 "2016-02-03T04:44:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/61 "2016-02-03T21:35:13Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > if you honestly think Sanders is a communist . . . you need to get out more. He is about as much of a commie as Trump is a racist. Meaning not exactly, but the shared ideological heritage justifies the use of the slur during election season. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/62 "2016-02-03T21:40:34Z")
Also, 'cause I feel like some people are just reading the first couple angry sentences of the linked rant, here’s a paragraph that pretty much sums it up: > [@](#): > > AND THE THING IS–I LIKE BERNIE! EVERYONE LIKES BERNIE! BECAUSE CRAZY GRANDPA IS TOTALLY ELECTABLE BUT CRAZY GRANDMA NEVER COULD BE. BUT WHY DO WE HAVE TO HATE HER TO SHOW HOW MUCH WE LOVE HIM? SOCIALIST JESUS TAKE THE FUCKING WHEEL. The writer doesn’t hate Bernie - she hates the constant vitriol spewed at Hillary from both sides. And, as a Bernie supporter who’s also not Hillary’s archenemy, I see her point. Hillary is far from the only unprincipled politician married to the establishment; the outpouring of hatred towards her from liberals acts as a how-Bernie-are-you contest, but I think it’s unnecessary and will ultimately be damaging when she gets the nomination. > [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > He is about as much of a commie as Trump is a racist. Meaning not exactly, but the shared ideological heritage justifies the use of the slur during election season. Personally I feel Trump’s far more a racist (or racist-panderer) than Bernie is a communist, but I get your point - where would political journalism be without hyperbole? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/63 "2016-02-03T21:43:00Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > Also, 'cause I feel like some people are just reading the first couple angry sentences of the linked rant, here’s a paragraph that pretty much sums it up: > > The writer doesn’t hate Bernie - she hates the constant vitriol spewed at Hillary from both sides. And, as a Bernie supporter who’s also not Hillary’s archenemy, I see her point. Hillary is far from the only unprincipled politician married to the establishment; the outpouring of hatred towards her from liberals acts as a how-Bernie-are-you contest, but I think it’s unnecessary and will ultimately be damaging when she gets the nomination. Man, you keep posting totally reasonable things. What kind of place do you think this is? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/64 "2016-02-03T21:49:00Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > Hillary is far from the only unprincipled politician married to the establishment Indeed. I mean one could make similar claims about President Obama, but there doesn’t appear to be that sort of move. Even President (Bill) Clinton seems to be more sheltered from those invectives from the left than Hillary Clinton is (it appears that the only time Bill is railed against for being unprincipled and establishment is when the person is trying to run down Hillary Clinton - you didn’t hear much of it before Hillary ran for President in 2008). ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/65 "2016-02-03T21:50:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Man, you keep posting totally reasonable things. What kind of place do you think this is? This place is quite lovely - seriously, I need to stop spending time in reddit’s political forums. There are a great many people (trolls? well, hopefully trolls) whose arguments against Hillary amount to “PANTSUITS PANTSUITS PANTSUITS heheh, look she’s getting all emotional lolol”. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/66 "2016-02-03T22:01:32Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > Band name? (And if you honestly think Sanders is a communist . . . you need to get out more.) No worries, I’m sure we can rely on the Republican attack machine to highlight the distinction. Seriously, Hillary is the probably the most vetted and battle-tested politician in the US today. Meanwhile Bernie fans are chafing at polite suggestions that he might have electability problems with the general population or that his plans might be recklessly far-reaching. They have literally no idea of the kind of shitstorm the Republicans will rain down on his head should he actually get the nomination. Hillary knows from shitstorms. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/67 "2016-02-03T22:37:05Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > No worries, I’m sure we can rely on the Republican attack machine to highlight the distinction. > > Seriously, Hillary is the probably the most vetted and battle-tested politician in the US today. Meanwhile Bernie fans are chafing at polite suggestions that he might have electability problems with the general population or that his plans might be recklessly far-reaching. They have **literally no idea** of the kind of shitstorm the Republicans will rain down on his head should he actually get the nomination. Hillary knows from shitstorms. (emphasis added) Again, do you think that Sanders and his supporters haven’t been paying attention to the last several political campaigns? That seems awfully condescending and dismissive. And as I posted in the other thread, have you forgotten that this is Hillary’s SECOND run for President and that, despite seeming to have a comfortable lead, she LOST the first one? If you think she’s a better candidate because of her temperament or experience or policy positions, fine, but the facts really aren’t on your side if your main argument is that she has shown herself to be good at campaigning. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/68 "2016-02-03T22:50:16Z")
Despite losing Iowa, and getting significantly behind in the delegate count in February, Hillary ended up with slightly more votes than Obama by the end of the primary season. But she didn’t use the caucus system and the rules as well. Still, normally when one candidate gets significantly behind, this snowballs. Instead, she kept winning primaries right up to the late stages, which indicates to me either a strong ability to campaign, or that Obama’s campaign was weak. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > No worries, I’m sure we can rely on the Republican attack machine to highlight the distinction. > > Seriously, Hillary is the probably the most vetted and battle-tested politician in the US today. Meanwhile Bernie fans are chafing at polite suggestions that he might have electability problems with the general population or that his plans might be recklessly far-reaching. They have literally no idea of the kind of shitstorm the Republicans will rain down on his head should he actually get the nomination. Hillary knows from shitstorms. YES. As for “shouty commie grandpa”, I would never describe Bernie that way and I suppose it’s a bit ageist–although I do think he is a little old to be running for his first term. But there is a kernel of substance there. IMO, it’s much more outrageous for a Bernhead to say they won’t vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination than it is for someone to say they would vote for Hillary as nominee but not if Bernie is the standardbearer. DUCY? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/69 "2016-02-03T22:51:48Z")
Yeah, maybe many of Sanders supporters don’t know what might come down but the man himself surely does. He’s ran something like 20 election campaigns for God’s sake. If he hasn’t seen as much crap flung at him that could only be because there’s less there to fling. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/70 "2016-02-03T22:56:41Z")
To expand on my “YES”: if Bernie becomes the nominee and loses to Rubio, the Bernheads will complain that the Republicans lied about him and the “corporate media” didn’t set the record straight. They will also complain that average middle American voters are old and stupid and churchy, and far too easily scared by the term “socialist”. (All true to a fair extent, but beside the point.) They may throw in some sort of excuse about Citizens United, mumblemumble. They may also accuse Hillary supporters and the DNC of sabotaging him in the general election somehow, regardless of how little evidence there is for the proposition. But they will take endless comfort in feeling that they were part of a righteous and joyous cause, regardless of its being a losing one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/71 "2016-02-03T22:59:01Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > To expand on my “YES”: if Bernie becomes the nominee and loses to Rubio, the Bernheads will complain that the Republicans lied about him and the “corporate media” didn’t set the record straight. Which will almost certainly be true, though whether sufficient to account for the results would remain debatable. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/72 "2016-02-03T23:00:46Z")
If it’s true, then we shouldn’t take that chance. Nice though to see that you’ve already got your excuse teed up well in advance. :rolleyes: > [@CarnalK](#): > > Yeah, maybe many of Sanders supporters don’t know what might come down but the man himself surely does. He’s ran something like 20 election campaigns for God’s sake. If he hasn’t seen as much crap flung at him that could only be because there’s less there to fling. Riiiight, because that Vermont GOP is so well known for its shit flinging. Hello, Jim Jeffords anyone? The guy switched sides because he didn’t like how the national GOP was becoming a bunch of meanies. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/73 "2016-02-03T23:01:36Z")
What will Hillary supporters say if she loses to Rubio? “Oh well. The best person won. Yay democracy!” Bernie apparently won “the most expensive election in Vermont history” by a 2-1 margin. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/74 "2016-02-03T23:02:00Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > . . . shouty commie grandpa. > [@Octarine](#): > > Band name? (And if you honestly think Sanders is a communist . . . you need to get out more.) Over the years, I’ve noticed conservatives and RWs on the Intertubes have a curious habit of viewing the whole left side of the spectrum through the wrong end of a telescope, blurring all the important distinctions within it. Lefties and progressives and liberals at least can tell neocons from paleocons from bizcons. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/75 "2016-02-03T23:11:14Z")
I’m not so sure about that. Just recently, along with many other times in the past, I’ve seen comments to the effect that all Republicans see women as ideally being barefoot in the kitchen with a prairie dress on. Whereas the modern GOP, with all its faults, is actually quite into women being powerful corporate lawyer types just like men. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/76 "2016-02-03T23:26:45Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > So do you think that _most_ voters choose candidates based on emotional responses to completely irrelevant factors, or is this hypothesis only needed for you to explain to yourself why Sanders in particular is doing well? Bumped my last question to you since you apparently missed it. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Despite losing Iowa, and getting significantly behind in the delegate count in February, Hillary ended up with slightly more votes than Obama by the end of the primary season. But she didn’t use the caucus system and the rules as well. Still, normally when one candidate gets significantly behind, this snowballs. Instead, she kept winning primaries right up to the late stages, which indicates to me either a strong ability to campaign, or that Obama’s campaign was weak. It’s impossible to be “significantly behind in the delegate count in February”, because there aren’t a significant number of delegates awarded in February, and it’s not at all unusual for candidates to win the nomination or come close to it after losing a few early states. That’s like giving a basketball team credit for clawing back from a 5-0 deficit two minutes into the game. The fact that Hillary’s loss was partially due to her not understanding the details of the nominating process as well as Obama – not actually a point in favor of her being a political genius. And remember that she couldn’t beat Obama despite having a large financial advantage over him (though nowhere near as large as the one she has over Bernie). She won’t have that advantage against the Republican nominee. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > IMO, it’s much more outrageous for a Bernhead to say they won’t vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination than it is for someone to say they would vote for Hillary as nominee but not if Bernie is the standardbearer. DUCY? No; I would regard them both as equally silly. Can you explain? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/77 "2016-02-03T23:33:57Z")
Because Bernie is to Hillary’s left. A moderate could legitimately prefer a Republican over him but prefer Hillary over the Republican. Whereas a Bernhead voting Republican, or even abstaining in the general election, is just being spiteful. Cite on Hillary’s alleged huge financial advantage over Obama? And no: I did not miss your snarky, loaded, leading question. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/78 "2016-02-03T23:37:29Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Because Bernie is to Hillary’s left. A moderate could legitimately prefer a Republican over him but prefer Hillary over the Republican. Whereas a Bernhead voting Republican, or even abstaining in the general election, is just being spiteful. How so? The gulf between Hillary and even the most moderate Republican candidate like TRUMP or Kasich is far wider then the gap between Sanders and Clinton on any issue of consequence. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/79 "2016-02-03T23:46:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Personally, the fact that Hillary Clinton acts like a grown-up is one of the big things I like about her. I don’t want a President who rants and raves and fires up the crowd. I don’t want a President who I can imagine is my buddy I could drink a beer with. I don’t want a President who is a surrogate parent figure. I don’t want a President who I can transfer all my hopes and dreams on to. > > I want a President who is a competent and efficient politician who I feel will make intelligent choices about leading the nation. They are not mutually contradictory traits-ideally I want a candidate who can embody all those traits. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026/80 "2016-02-03T23:46:45Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > How so? The gulf between Hillary and even the most moderate Republican candidate like TRUMP or Kasich is far wider then the gap between Sanders and Clinton on any issue of consequence. Easy. Let’s put conservatism on the right/positive side of the scale and liberalism on the left/negative side. We’ll say 100 is the furthest you can go in either direction. So let’s say Rubio is a +70, Bernie is a -80, and Hillary is a -30. It’s true that there is twice as much distance between Hillary and Rubio as there is between Hillary and Bernie. But for anyone between -5 and +20, Rubio is closer to them then Bernie is, while Hillary is closer to them than Rubio is. It doesn’t matter what the numbers are unless you say that Hillary and Bernie are exactly the same, and I don’t think anyone would claim that. If there is any difference between them, there is going to be some group that will swing if they want to go to the closest candidate to them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-pro-hillary-rant-is-cathartic-for-me/745026.md?page=5)