# This seems reasonable but has been only laughed at so far **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 1, 2013, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319 "2013-07-01T05:56:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/21 "2013-07-01T18:45:28Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > If I was a landlord, my reaction to such a request would be “this guy’s a problem looking to happen”, and to dismiss you as a smart-ass. Why would a landlord bother with someone who is creating a problem for him before the first rent payment? +1 Its is reasonable for you to ask for credit and background checks from a prospective landlord? Depends entirely on who is defining “reasonable”. Is it legal? Can you demand it and not rent from any one who won’t provide it to you? Sure. Where does that leave you? Probably homeless. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/22 "2013-07-01T18:53:05Z")
I get where you are coming from, but due dilligence on your landlord does not come in the form of a credit report. Only an idiot wouldn’t check out a potential landlord. Bedbugs anyone? Foreclosure? What if they don’t even actually own the property and are running a scam? You can do your own background check by calling housing or the building department or whomever handles complaints and see how many violations the potential landlord has, how serious they are, how many are open and how long on average they take to be resolved. In NYC, all of this is available online so checking is a breeze. You can also search the court dockets to see how many people had to sue for their security deposits back. Check the tax records to see if they own the place and court filings to see if they are in foreclosure. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/23 "2013-07-01T19:40:28Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > You don’t? Why not? The lease should provide you legal protections, and renter’s insurance will protect your property, so why are you so vulnerable? > > Bottom line: if the place burns to the ground they’re out a hugely expensive building, loss of revenue from other tenants, and who knows what else; you’re out a few grand in furniture and clothes. They’re more diligent because they’re taking much more risk and try as you might you’ll never be able to rationalize the risks as equal for both parties. Then they fucked up and didn’t get insurance on their building … which unless they found some seriously funky mortgage source, insurance is pretty much mandatory on any structure that is used to secure a mortgage. Other than their deductable, they shouldn’t be out anything - and one can argue that your monthly payments should be covering both the mortgage and insurance in addition to paying the various expenses associated with running a rental building and hopefully providing a smidgeon of profit to go into your pocket. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/24 "2013-07-01T19:46:37Z")
> [@tralfamidor](#): > > Am I unreasonable to request the same information of them as they request of me? Apparently, everyone here thinks so!!! Yes, and you might take a clue from that. You _are_ being unreasonable. Most of your so-called concerns are bs. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/25 "2013-07-01T19:50:02Z")
I have several houses I rent out in San Diego County. There is no way I get enough rental applicants at $50 per to equal the revenue from renting the house. $50 is about what it costs me to run a background check and do other due diligence. I ask for a damage deposit that is equal to a month’s rent, along with the first month. That is what California allows, and I have had to regularly use that second month to pay for both damages AND people who move out in the middle of the night. I want proof that you can pay, and will keep on paying. It is all enough of a pain in the ass that I pay a person 10% of all collections, plus expenses, to manage this entire process. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/26 "2013-07-01T20:13:41Z")
“Oh yeah? Well why don’t you show me _your_ license and vehicle registration! And tell me if _you’ve_ been drinking tonight!” ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/27 "2013-07-01T21:59:29Z")
I doubt if it’s ever illegal for a prospective renter to ask for detailed information about the prospective landlord. But I doubt that - in any area where demand is high and rental properties are hard to come by - such a request fails to pretty well disqualify the prospective renter from serious consideration. Consider the matter from a landlord’s point of view: A small but significant percentage of tenants are consistently troublesome, and well worth efforts to avoid. If you make any suggestion that you might be among these, the landlord will be strongly encouraged to say “Hey, better wait until the guy with a trouble-free demeanor comes along - which will probably happen tomorrow.” Landlords with crappy properties may be willing to stretch a point. But if you want to score a good apartment, you’ll probably need to make yourself look like a trouble-free tenant. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/28 "2013-07-01T22:06:10Z")
> [@tralfamidor](#): > > it just illustrates how unequal the power relationship is. Hammer meet the head of the nail. The balance of supply and demand for rental properties is heavily weighed to demand side or the renters. So the people with property available to rent can be extremely choosey about who they rent to and the demands they place on those potential renters. I.e. they don’t need **your** business, because there’s someone right behind you that will submit to their requests, in order to get the scarce property. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/29 "2013-07-01T22:14:13Z")
> [@tralfamidor](#): > > In disgust, I have said that I’m willing to provide all this information **if the landlord provides that same information to me as well**. Is this unreasonable? After all, I’m more vulnerable to a crooked landlord that any landlord is vulnerable to my being a crook. In the former case, my home is at stake; in the latter case, a portion of the landlord’s cash flow. I actually think that I’m entitled to know if I’m dealing with a reputable individual/company, especially if they demand to know everything about me. Yet, I get either incredulous stares or laughter when I say that I want a credit check and background check on my prospective landlord (and before anyone yeeps that my landlord isn’t applying for credit with me, **neither am I applying for credit with him** ; the deposit is supposed to cover any financial shortfall he may experience anyway). Don’t back down, you have righteousness on your side. In fact, not only should you ask for a credit report, bank statements, pay stubs and a background check, you should insist that he pay a processing fee for each document. And make him give you a deposit of at least one month’s rent, in case he ends up being a crook and trying to keep some of your deposit unfairly. When you’re right, you’re right, and you are clearly in the right on this one. ---
**Author:** ![tralfamidor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@tralfamidor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tralfamidor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/30 "2013-07-02T00:43:22Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > If I was a landlord, my reaction to such a request would be “this guy’s a problem looking to happen”, and to dismiss you as a smart-ass. Why would a landlord bother with someone who is creating a problem for him before the first rent payment? What’s the problem in asking for a credit report? Why is it perfectly reasonable for him to ask it of me but not for me to ask it of him? After all, isn’t my interest in his financial responsibility just as germane as his is mine? For instance, the report might suggest to me how likely he is to retain my deposit for no good reason. **Of course, for thousands of years, anyone on the bottom asking for fair or equal treatment has indeed been labeled a “smart-ass” and a “troublemaker.”** As to why would a landlord rent to me after I made such a request–why not? He has something to sell, and I want to buy it. ---
**Author:** ![tralfamidor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@tralfamidor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tralfamidor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/31 "2013-07-02T00:47:23Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Sorry that landlords don’t just let anyone walk in off the street with nothing but a promise to pay them their rent each month. PLUS a deposit equal to two months’ rent, which I am not objecting to. THAT is the landlord’s security blanket. It’s only after getting that became routine that they started slathering on other requirements as well. In less in-demand markets, the deposit is usually half a month’s rent, there is no last month’s rent in advance requirement, and processing fees don’t exist. I absolutely refuse to concede that just because a rental market is tight, that in and of itself justifies imposing onerous burdens on prospective renters. ---
**Author:** ![tralfamidor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@tralfamidor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tralfamidor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/32 "2013-07-02T00:50:02Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > “Oh yeah? Well why don’t you show me _your_ license and vehicle registration! And tell me if _you’ve_ been drinking tonight!” Dumb example. A rental contract is between two individuals/entities with equal legal standing. The cop/driver interaction is anything but equal in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![tralfamidor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@tralfamidor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tralfamidor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/33 "2013-07-02T00:56:52Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Don’t back down, you have righteousness on your side. In fact, not only should you ask for a credit report, bank statements, pay stubs and a background check, you should insist that he pay a processing fee for each document. And make him give you a deposit of at least one month’s rent, in case he ends up being a crook and trying to keep some of your deposit unfairly. > > When you’re right, you’re right, and you are clearly in the right on this one. You’re obviously being sarcastic, but I could easily and with fairness on my side ask him to provide those documents for my examination; make my own evaluations and absorb any costs of further checks myself; and insist that he put my deposit in an escrow account and that a disinteretsed third party be responsible for evaluating whether or not I get my deposit back. Too many landlords regard that deposit as belonging to them; money in the bank, and thus aren’t inclined, or even able, to refund it to you. They then make up some fairy tale about why they’re entitled to keep it, which usually works because you’ve moved away and can’t practically pursue whatever remedies you might have had. My favorite was the landlord who kept my entire $650 because, and I quote, “You didn’t clean the stove when you left.” Even acknowledging today’s skyrocketing costs of home appliance maintenance, I evaluated this claim as bogus because the stove had never worked since the day I moved in, and I had never even turned it on. ---
**Author:** ![tralfamidor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@tralfamidor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tralfamidor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/34 "2013-07-02T01:04:33Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > I want proof that you can pay, and **will keep on paying**. Here we go. This is the problem. You want \*\*absolute guarantees \*\*that the moolah will keep on flowing no matter what, so you can keep up the payments on the Beemer and the sailboat and the ex-wife (not to mention all the mortgages on your heavily leveraged rental properties). But such guarantees are impossible. People get sick, lose their jobs, move away because of job obligations, etc. I can no more guarantee you to the degree of certainty that you desire that I will be able to pay the rent (for one thing, I could DIE) than **you can guarantee that you will be a financially solvent entity for the duration of the lease**. You could easily go bankrupt and be forced to liquidate your properties, and my lease would no longer apply. Can you guarantee that that won’t happen? And since requesting financial documents from you is so hideously unreasonable, on what logical basis should I accept your bland assurances that no such event will occur? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/35 "2013-07-02T01:27:32Z")
Did you demand the university you attended show you their high school grades too? Do you make the doctor show you his boo boo? You can do whatever you wish, you’re breaking no laws, go ahead and demand away, what’s stopping you? You are being unreasonable in the extreme, but if you’re so convinced you’re right then why aren’t you doing so? Everyone is laughing because, your thinking is laughable! ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/36 "2013-07-02T01:31:29Z")
> [@tralfamidor](#): > > You want \*\*absolute guarantees \*\*that the moolah will keep on flowing no matter what, so you can keep up the payments on the Beemer and the sailboat … Okay, let’s suppose you are a landlord. Would you prefer the tenant who’s reluctant to give the creditworthy assurances you request and who wants to see yours, or the one who provides what you request, and asks for nothing special? There’s no cosmic principle at work here that will give you treatment you consider fair. Instead, there’s you and a bunch of other would-be renters competing for a limited number of apartments. Don’t be surprised if these happen to go to the tenants that look best to the landlords. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/37 "2013-07-02T01:32:09Z")
> [@tralfamidor](#): > > And since requesting financial documents from you is so hideously unreasonable, on what logical basis should I accept your bland assurances that no such event will occur? You don’t have to. Have fun in your pup tent! ---
**Author:** ![tralfamidor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@tralfamidor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tralfamidor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/38 "2013-07-02T01:35:56Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Did you demand the university you attended show you their high school grades too? Do you make the doctor show you his boo boo? > > You can do whatever you wish, you’re breaking no laws, go ahead and demand away, what’s stopping you? > > You are being unreasonable in the extreme, but if you’re so convinced you’re right then why aren’t you doing so? Everyone is laughing because, your thinking is laughable! As were deemed requests/demands for a 12-hour (rather than 14) workday, the end of child labor, and medical care for the elderly, not to mention laws against discrimination in housing, safety standards and building codes in rental housing, etc. etc. etc. Everything we regard as fair and just protection for the little guy was at first, sneered at just the way you are sneering at my suggestion now. I am heartened by your disdain, and let me add that if you are, in fact, a landlord (as your douchebag tone suggests), I do hope your tenement burns down. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/39 "2013-07-02T05:03:58Z")
> [@tralfamidor](#): > > You’re obviously being sarcastic, but I could easily and with fairness on my side ask him to provide those documents for my examination; make my own evaluations and absorb any costs of further checks myself; and insist that he put my deposit in an escrow account and that a disinteretsed third party be responsible for evaluating whether or not I get my deposit back. You should! I’m behind you 100%! You tell him that you told the Internet what he and landlords like him are doing and that the Internet does NOT approve. Also, tell him that you’ll be expecting him to give you a hundred dollar bill for every stain you find in the carpet that he doesn’t disclose in advance. That will give him an incentive to be honest! ---
**Author:** ![tralfamidor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@tralfamidor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tralfamidor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319/40 "2013-07-02T05:36:49Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > You should! I’m behind you 100%! You tell him that you told the Internet what he and landlords like him are doing and that the Internet does NOT approve. > > Also, tell him that you’ll be expecting him to give you a hundred dollar bill for every stain you find in the carpet that he doesn’t disclose in advance. That will give him an incentive to be honest! Do you have any other weapons besides sarcasm in your arsenal? I grow bored with you. What I would like to see is, in fact, quite reasonable. Why shouldn’t I be able to check out the honesty and integrity of my landlord? But you seem to think that I should use blind faith. Oh, and re stains in the carpet: I take photos of everything I see–EVERYTHING–that could be construed as less than perfect when I move in. I then give a list of those imperfections, together with copies of the photos, to my landlord. Despite my doing this, several landlords have tried to dun me for such damage and withhold some or all of my deposit. When I presented the original documents and the photos, they said that I had taken the photos only recently, after I did the damage in question. I then asked for the copies I had given them, and they said they couldn’t find them, or in one case, claimed I had never provided such documents at all. Sorry, but my experiences are that landlords are lying, cheating scum who will rip you off in a heartbeat. The renting culture that assumes that the poor, defenseless landlord is the one most at risk in the rental process is absurd. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-seems-reasonable-but-has-been-only-laughed-at-so-far/662319.md?page=3)