Really? You are equating a landlord’s demands before renting to child miners and and a fourteen hour work day? You cannot be serious, surely.
Nobody is making you do anything you don’t want. If you’re not willing to provide the information landlords in your market are expecting, then don’t. Find another rental situation.
But expecting other people who both willingly jumped through the required hoops to rent, and comprehended the reasons for them, to not find your ‘tit for tat’ reasoning amusing and laughable, is going a little over the line.
The landlord has something the potential renter wants, either oblige his requests or move on.
Or, y’know, just keep tilting at those windmills, that’s sure to help!
Always, always take pictures when you move in, and pictures when you move out. If my landlord withheld $650 for not cleaning the stove, I’d have taken him to small claims court.
I have heard of a number of people getting evicted because their property was foreclosed upon - because the landlord wasn’t making the mortgage payments. I would really like to make sure that my landlord was actually honoring his various debts - to the mortgage company, the utility companies and so forth.
In my state (New Hampshire) the law is very specific regarding deposits. The landlord may ask for the first months rent, plus the equivalent of one months rent as a deposit. They cannot call it something else to get more than the equivalent of one months rent in advance. They cannot get the last months rent in addition to any deposit. If they demand in excess of the legally allowed deposit, and you pay it, you can turn around and sue them for double the deposit/fee/security/rent that exceeds the first months rent. And it is nearly impossible for a landlord to keep a security deposit without providing receipts for repairs that were actually performed, not just estimates of damage claims.
Read the law in your state; some of what you describe may be illegal, and the basis for lucrative lawsuits.
I just don’t see what the issue is. Like I mentioned up thread and others have re-iterated.
You have every right to ask the landlord these questions.
They have every right to ask you those questions.
You have every right to refuse to answer those questions
They have every right to refuse to answer those questions.
You have every right to not enter a contract if they don’t answer the questions.
They have every right to not enter a contract if you don’t answer the questions.
There is no problem, there is no unfairness, you are not forced to provide these answers and enter the contract and neither are they.
I, too, am one of those scumbag landlords and I can tell you-the application fee isn’t a scam. It covers the very real cost of checking out a prospective tenant. And can you honestly tell me that, if the situation were reversed, you’d let just anyone off the street move into your property without checking out their background?
You are, of course, entitled to ask for any documentation you wish, but as you’ve discovered, that gets you flagged as TROUBLE and trouble is the last thing a landlord wants. Being a landlord is often a pain in the ass when everyone is reasonable. An unreasonable tenant can make a landlord’s life hell.
Security deposits: in my state (Georgia) if I don’t return a security deposit or give a good reason in writing why within 30 days, I can be sued for 3 times that deposit so I don’t play around with that. If your documentation looks better than your landlord’s, a judge is likely to rule in your favor, so if you allow a landlord to fraudulently keep your deposit, that’s really your fault.
Why do you assume he’s looking for an iron-clad guarantee? If he’s a businessman, he’s not looking for a guarantee - he’s just looking for a high probability, as demonstrated by a lack of red flags. Why does that bother you so much? If you were a businessman, wouldn’t you look for some assurances that your customers could reliably pay their bills?
FWIW, your remarks about the Beemer, sailboat and ex-wife are indicative of a bitterness that probably comes across in your interactions with prospective landlords and doesn’t help your cause.
The logical basis is that if you don’t, you won’t have a place to live. It’s that simple.
Want a landlord who is less demanding? Move to a place where there’s less demand for rental property, maybe Flint, Michigan. They probably get far fewer renters knocking on their door, so they’ll be happy to see you and won’t ask nearly as much.
Want no landlord at all? Consider buying your own home.
Think landlords have it all? Save up your money and/or secure a small business loan, purchase some property, and rent it out. Then you can be on the power side of the rental relationship.
I’m wondering about the credit checks and the background checks. Few of us have led a pristine life, credit-wise. Can landlords refuse rentals because someone went bankrupt? You know, bankruptcies are most commonly filed for medical reasons, it’s the most common cause of them here in the US (because of our fucked-up medical system) and I’d hate to think someone would have a hard time renting a place to live because a few years back because they had a terrible illness or accident … but unfortunately, I follow the news, and I totally believe this would be the case.
So, yah, there are real issues here, if anyone would care to examine them.
No one is preventing you from performing due dilligence before you hand over your cash. The part where you are going off the rails is believing that demanding that the landlord hand it over to you is a good idea. It’s not. No one will want to rent to you. You need to check the landlord out on your own before you hand over your cash.
My friend in NYC, back in 1999, owned her Manhattan apartment and bought a new one. She put her old apartment (actually, a very SMALL studio apartment) on the market for $1,795 month - for a studio mind you, back in 1999.
She had a line going out into the street! People were bringing in complete financial reports and the kicker - they were trying to bribe her constantly! Offering Broadway tickets to shows, gift certificates to restaurants/department stores and I think one offered her two round trip tickets to the Bahamas! To say the competition to get the apartment was fierce would be an understatement.
I am sure there is a reason for these background checks - plus, in some areas, it is damned difficult to evict someone if they don’t pay rent, so that is also something landlords have to deal with.
I understand your frustration at having to pay that fee over and over again - you might try talking to them nicely and ask, “Am I at least in the running to make paying this fee worthwhile?” Then again, they are not profiting from this exercise, so I have to assume they are gathering all of the info from everyone, and then going by gut feeling - so you asking for their financial info is not going to endear you to any of them.l
To Evil Captor:
In my state I can certainly refuse to rent to someone on the basis of a credit report. If someone is upfront with me and has a good reason for their credit problems (medical expenses, etc) I will take that into account and won’t automatically disqualify them. If I pull a bad credit report and they haven’t tried to explain any issues I’ll generally just go on to the next person.
To the OP:
Think of it this way: Imagine that you’re going into a medium to long-term legal relationship. You have your choice of 3 people to enter it with. 2 of these people cheerfully provide the documentation that society has deemed appropriate for the transaction. The third makes a lot of unusual demands. Are you really going to say “These two guys look great. Their references check out and they provided me with all I needed to make my decision in a timely manner. But I think I’ll go with Difficult Guy instead. Just because,”?
You’re preaching to the choir, buddy. I don’t know how else to say it: I really, really think you should do exactly what you outlined in your OP and report back here. In no way do I want to discourage you from doing this. I think it would be the best thing ever if you did this. It would make me incredibly happy if you did this. No sarcasm, every one of these statements is the God’s honest truth.
An unscrupulous landlord could offer an apartment for rent, collect application fees and just pocket them. “Sorry, it was rented to someone else.” I presume that is illegal, but how would anyone prove it?
I manage a small apartment building in California. We really try to be good landlords, not overcharging, not gouging when refunding deposits, etc. I hear horror stories about tenants’ previous landlords, though, and it makes me cringe.
Some of the demands on the OP sound like too much, but I’ll echo other owners that the OP sounds like trouble.
Addressing some issues:
The deposit seems too high. We usually ask for no more than the equivalent of one month’s rent, but recently have been going lower than that. By law we can’t take more than twice the monthly rent.
We ask for pay stubs only, to make sure the prospective tenant can afford it. The only time we would ask for bank statements is if the person was self employed or otherwise relying on money beyond a paycheck to pay rent. (One time we had a young adult’s overseas parents send him rent money each month. We accepted that with a letter promising such.)
We charge an application fee, and yes, it is a lot of work checking out tenants. Part of the expense is our own costs of running a credit report. Evictions are almost always caused by lack of vetting people, and they are expensive and time consuming. Good work at the beginning keeps us from having to get to the eviction stage.
We will offer a copy of the credit report to applicants regardless of whether we accept them. I can’t cite a specific law, but I’m fairly certain we have to give them a copy upon request.
I doubt I’d give a copy of my own credit report to an applicant, but I would happily provide proof that I manage the building and the owner truly owns it. I’m pretty sure we have no record at any landlord complaint department.
The relationship between landlord and tenant is definitely like credit. You are certainly not “buying” anything. Just like a loan, you have possession of something of mine with the promise of paying me monthly. I need to know that you can and will make those payments. I look at credit reports for habits of non-payment. I’m more lenient about medical-based defaults, but I don’t ignore them.
For rental history, it’s pretty simple - if you’ve been evicted before, you’re more likely to get to that point with me. Anything beyond one (which must be explained) you’re out. And we tell people about that up front, before they pay the application fee; I don’t need to waste my time and their money.
An ordinary deposit is not enough to cover the cost of an eviction attorney, the sheriff’s fee, or damage to the unit; and certainly not lost rent.
It’s a pretty common scam in NYC. Only a fool would hand over money without checking out the potential “landlord”. I really don’t get why so many people here think because someone calls themselves a “landlord” that they hold all the cards. They have just as much a chance of being a grifter as anyone else. You need to check people out before you give them your money.
This is from a New York Times article in 2009.
*One of the most widespread and frequently undetected hustles involves collecting nonrefundable application fees from prospective renters.
The grifters “have the keys to a vacant apartment and hold an open house there, not intending to rent to anyone,” said Bob Brooks, an agent at Century 21 NY Metro. “It’s usually a crazy deal, like a one-bedroom on Greenwich Street for $1,750 that should really be $3,100. So they get a hundred application fees because everyone who sees it, wants it. Application fees could be $50 to $250, but I’ve definitely heard of clients giving $500, or $1,000 or even a month’s rent in cash.”
Many would-be renters never know that they have been deceived.
It was by a fluke that Jamie Kozma, 24, a media planner and first-time renter, discovered two years ago that he’d been duped in connection with a two-bedroom apartment on the Upper West Side, advertised for $1,600 on Craigslist.
“It was a pretty sizable two-bedroom,” said Mr. Kozma, who saw the apartment with his father. “We asked why it was so cheap; we wouldn’t be surprised if it was double. The supposed agent said it was a special deal, that they get these once in a while and the owner just wanted it to go quickly.”
Mr. Kozma filled out an application for himself and his roommate and handed it to the agent at a Starbucks the following week, along with $240 in application fees, $120 from each of them.
“He said we would know in a week. I didn’t really hear from him, so I called back asking for status,” Mr. Kozma said. “He said he would know in a few days. When the day finally came, I called him and he said sorry to tell you, they gave it to someone with a higher income.”
Mr. Kozma accepted the man’s story. Then his sister told him a friend had been duped by the same agent and had discovered that the brokerage listed on his business card did not exist.
“I called him and I was like, ‘Listen, I know who you are and what you’ve done, and I want my money back,’ ” Mr. Kozma said.
He never received a refund, and eventually dropped the matter as not worth the trouble: “I guess that was his tactic — to go small.”
Mr. Malin said Mr. Kozma’s hunch was probably correct: “Most people aren’t going to complain over a small sum of money.”*
I think you’re mistaken about the relative risks. A long time ago I rented a lot and lived among other renters. The number of times the landlord left a renter holding the ball? zero. (Of course, there were renters who wouldn’t get the toilet fixed in a timely manner, but those renters withheld rent until they did.) Number of times renters kept living on the premises without paying rent? Quite a few. Thanks to laws, it’s very difficult and time-consuming, and expensive to get someone evicted. (There’s a reality TV show about a guy who gets paid to resolve these issues without going to court. Worth watching if you think the renters have nothing at risk.)
This is the bottom line in your situation. While you have every right to ask for credentials, you’re unlikely to find a place to rent, and definitely not a competitive one.
Bingo.
Yeah, I wonder about that.
In any case, there should be a renter’s union of some sort in your area. Find it, and avail yourself of all the resources they have to offer. You’ll find that a number of the landlord’s requests aren’t allowed and you can simply ignore them, along with rental contract clauses that are illegal and therefor uninforceable, which you could choose to sign and then ignore (depending on your opinion of law versus ethics.)
In this state it is insanely difficult to evict someone. It can take many months. And someone not paying rent tends to not be very diligent in keeping the property damage free. The property owner loses a ton of money. That’s how my ex-sister-in-law lived. Rent a place, pay rent for a couple months, stop paying until they evict, rinse, repeat. I can only figure she somehow found landlords that didn’t do financial checks. I can’t blame a landlord for trying to keep that from happening.