# This shirt is illegal in 52 countries **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 12, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512 "2010-09-12T15:10:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/41 "2010-09-13T05:17:31Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Ethiopia has a long Christian history and is 66% Christian- they even use a version of the old Coptic calender! But, again, they’re not talking about persecution against Christians per se. They’re talking about persecution of Evangelical Christians and Evangelical Christian proselytizing. So, in their section on Ethiopia, they say: > [@](#): > > In Ethiopia, Orthodox Church members harass evangelical Christians. In one case, the body of a Christian baby boy was dug up in the middle of the night and placed on the steps of the evangelical church. The local Orthodox church would not allow the body of the boy to be buried on their church grounds. In addition, young people who receive Christ are sometimes driven from their Orthodox families. In another incident, a man lost his teaching job at a government school after converting to Christianity. And, in the case of Nigeria, they say: > [@](#): > > Religious riots are common in northern Nigeria. Churches, Christian schools, homes and businesses are burned and > destroyed by angry rioters during these outbreaks of violence. In February 2009, numerous Christians were killed and more than 500 people were displaced during violence against believers in Bauchi state. Twelve people were also killed and 20 churches were burned in July 2009 when members of an Islamic sect rioted in order to have Shariah law enacted throughout Nigeria. In some cases, young women are kidnapped, compelled to convert to Islam and forcibly married to Muslim men. The kidnappers are then protected by Shariah courts. And neither of these are defined as “restricted nations” (defined as nations are Christianity is actively persecuted by law), but instead, “hostile areas” (defined as nations where Christianity isn’t protected by law, but has areas where Christians are victims of violence because of their active Christianity or proselytism. Admittedly, the t-shirt doesn’t go into that much detail itself, which is why it’s a bad idea to rely on t-shirts for in depth study of a subject. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/42 "2010-09-13T06:08:00Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I think this shirt is just measuring countries anywhere that have significant Muslim populations, under the assumptions that Musims will automatically persecute Christians. Colombia and Mexico? Looks like they’re listing any country where there has been a, uhm, overheated argument between Evangelicals and anybody else and the Evangelicals lost. Wether the Evangelical in question should have shut his mouth when asked to do so for the third time in as many minutes isn’t considered: they are the kind of people who think they are entitled, nay, charged with the sacred duty, to harass people so long as it’s in the name of religion. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/43 "2010-09-13T09:08:46Z")
Rather than “Prove it”, I think I’d simply ask… “Which ones?” ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/44 "2010-09-13T09:13:15Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > But, again, they’re not talking about persecution against Christians per se. They’re talking about persecution of Evangelical Christians and Evangelical Christian proselytizing. That’s not what they say on their tee-shirt. If they meant “A Christian once lost a fight in 52 countries” it’d be a different story. Maybe that person in Ethiopia should have thought for a moment before burying their kid in the graveyard of a church they don’t even belong to! I’m pretty sure if I tried to claim a space in the local Buddhist cemetery I’d get a similar reception. An isolated incident here and there does not render a country “hostile.” Nigeria does have religious conflict, but it’s as much about economics as religion. There is not Sharia law in “much” of Nigeria- Islam and Christianity enjoy a pretty even divide, and the areas that are having trouble with Sharia law are isolated areas that are only loosely controlled by the government. In Christian areas, Christianity is thriving and even aggressive. Evangelizing is not only possible- it’s pretty much the norm! ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/45 "2010-09-13T12:48:35Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > > > What is the word or phrase for performing an act of bravery or defiance in a venue that requires no actual danger or sacrifice? > > Teabagging Haha, best post of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/46 "2010-09-13T12:51:05Z")
[/QUOTE] Admittedly, the t-shirt doesn’t go into that much detail itself, which is why it’s a bad idea to rely on t-shirts for in depth study of a subject. [/QUOTE] Darn, there goes my plan to get an higher education. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/47 "2010-09-13T13:33:32Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Nigeria does have religious conflict, but it’s as much about economics as religion. There is not Sharia law in “much” of Nigeria- Islam and Christianity enjoy a pretty even divide, and the areas that are having trouble with Sharia law are isolated areas that are only loosely controlled by the government. In Christian areas, Christianity is thriving and even aggressive. Evangelizing is not only possible- it’s pretty much the norm! Ok, but again, Nigeria is defined by them as a “hostile area”, which means there’s some part of the country where there’s hostility to and persecution against Christians. So, is: > [@](#): > > Religious riots are common in northern Nigeria. Churches, Christian schools, homes and businesses are burned and destroyed by angry rioters during these outbreaks of violence. In February 2009, numerous Christians were killed and more than 500 people were displaced during violence against believers in Bauchi state. Twelve people were also killed and 20 churches were burned in July 2009 when members of an Islamic sect rioted in order to have Shariah law enacted throughout Nigeria. In some cases, young women are kidnapped, compelled to convert to Islam and forcibly married to Muslim men. The kidnappers are then protected by Shariah courts. accurate? Because, if it is, that sounds like northern Nigeria, at least, is hostile to Christians. I wouldn’t feel safe being a Christian in northern Nigeria if there are riots targeting Christians and if if Christian churches are being burned, and if I have to worry about my daughter being kidnapped and forcibly converted. If that’s true, then if I were a Christian in northern Nigeria, it wouldn’t be much consolation to me that Christians in southern Nigeria are free from persecution. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/48 "2010-09-13T13:48:08Z")
Christian-Muslim violence is common in Nigeria (in both directions). It’s true to say that significant parts of Nigeria are hostile to Christians. However, the shirt is a little disingenuous in saying that wearing a cross t-shirt would be illegal (as in many of the Christian but non-Evangelical countries mentioned). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/49 "2010-09-13T14:05:31Z")
Which, again, is why you shouldn’t rely on t-shirts for accuracy. I think the point of the t-shirt is to get the viewer’s attention so they’ll ask the wearer about it. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/50 "2010-09-13T14:23:16Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Why is it bewildering that a British woman would not have great admiration for a great comedic talent. Is this a British thing? Would you be less bewildered if the shirt had a picture of Spike Milligan on it? Or are you an anti-comedite? Would it have been different if the picture was of William Godfrey? I’m bewildered by the dearth of people shouting ‘Phil Silvers’ when they see a picture of the Dalai Lama. Take it easy. I’m a Silvers fan, too. He’s just probably the last thing I’d put on my shirt while in vacation in China–Dalai Lama or no. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/51 "2010-09-13T14:51:46Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Take it easy. I’m a Silvers fan, too. He’s just probably the last thing I’d put on my shirt while in vacation in China–Dalai Lama or no. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/52 "2010-09-13T15:43:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Which, again, is why you shouldn’t rely on t-shirts for accuracy. I think the point of the t-shirt is to get the viewer’s attention so they’ll ask the wearer about it. But for that to work the wearer has to know and understand the true situation, which it appears that many of them don’t. Nor are Voice of the Martyrs making any particular effort to clear up the confusion. If the statement were “This shirt could get you in trouble in 52 countries”, well, that’d be reasonably close to the truth. But “This shirt is illegal in 52 countries” is an outright lie. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/53 "2010-09-13T16:39:33Z")
Voice of the Martyrs clears it up on their website, though. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/54 "2010-09-13T16:39:35Z")
I’d like to add that there are several majority-Muslim countries, such as Indonesia and Sudan, where persecution of Christians is pretty common, and where the authorities tend to look the other way. So, while Christianity isn’t illegal, you could find yourself in trouble quite easily. As for the Phillippeans, although they’re majority-Christian, there are areas where Muslim fundamentalism is a problem, so I’d expect that they’re listed as a “hostile region.” (My computer at work won’t display the map, so I can’t see what it says.) As for the Latin American countries, please correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t most of those rebel groups Communist in nature? Historically, Communism has always had a strong atheistic element. Might there, by any chance, be problems with rebels attacking clergymen or vandalizing churches, or things like that? All that having been said, I agree that the t-shirt is a little dishonest, and I wouldn’t wear it myself. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/55 "2010-09-13T17:07:27Z")
“This t-shirt might get you in trouble in 52 countries, though not necessarily with the government.” isn’t as catchy a slogan, though, is it? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/56 "2010-09-13T17:25:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Which, again, is why you shouldn’t rely on t-shirts for accuracy. I think the point of the t-shirt is to get the viewer’s attention so they’ll ask the wearer about it. > > But for that to work the wearer has to know and understand the true situation, which it appears that many of them don’t. Nor are Voice of the Martyrs making any particular effort to clear up the confusion. If the statement were “This shirt could get you in trouble in 52 countries”, well, that’d be reasonably close to the truth. But “This shirt is illegal in 52 countries” is an outright lie. But that doesn’t matter much. I tried responding to a forwarded email about Barack Obama changing the national anthem to “I’d like to buy the world a Coke” with the truth, that it was ripped off from a satirical article written buy some guy in "The Arizona Conservative. I gave his name and the date of publication and everything. I received an enormous amount of hostility from folks who were not interested in the truth and continued to mail it out. I tried pointing out that they were stealing the writer’s intellectual property and bearing false witness, and that breaking 20% of the commandments in one short email was pretty impressive, but nobody cared, it made the story better if it was true. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/57 "2010-09-13T17:26:17Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > I tried responding to a forwarded email about Barack Obama changing the national anthem to “I’d like to buy the world a Coke” with the truth, that it was ripped off from a satirical article written buy some guy in "The Arizona Conservative. Why do you hate Flickerstick? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/58 "2010-09-13T17:39:24Z")
One of the countries listed is Turkey, which is about as hostile to Christians as the US is to Muslims. Oh, bad example. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/59 "2010-09-13T17:42:24Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Voice of the Martyrs clears it up on their website, though. Perhaps they should add the disclaimer, “This statement is not entirely accurate, please see our website for details.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/60 "2010-09-13T18:15:59Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > “This t-shirt might get you in trouble in 52 countries, though not necessarily with the government.” isn’t as catchy a slogan, though, is it? 😉 How about “This shirt is annoying in 52 countries”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512.md?page=4)