# This shirt is illegal in 52 countries **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 12, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512 "2010-09-12T15:10:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/61 "2010-09-13T18:23:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@ctnguy](#): > > > > “This t-shirt might get you in trouble in 52 countries, though not necessarily with the government.” isn’t as catchy a slogan, though, is it? 😉 > > How about “This shirt is annoying in 52 countries”? It’s annoying, but marginally less so than the one proclaiming “Beer: helping ugly people get laid since 1821”. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/62 "2010-09-13T19:16:05Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > But for that to work the wearer has to know and understand the true situation, which it appears that many of them don’t. Nor are Voice of the Martyrs making any particular effort to clear up the confusion. If the statement were “This shirt could get you in trouble in 52 countries”, well, that’d be reasonably close to the truth. But “This shirt is illegal in 52 countries” is an outright lie. > > But that doesn’t matter much. I tried responding to a forwarded email about Barack Obama changing the national anthem to “I’d like to buy the world a Coke” with the truth, that it was ripped off from a satirical article written buy some guy in “The Arizona Conservative”. I gave his name and the date of publication and everything. If you got shit for pointing out _that_ was a joke, try directing them to _The Onion_. Remember to report back to us. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/63 "2010-09-13T20:01:32Z")
Canada is 43% Catholic _and_ we have same-sex marriage. And they had an argument about whether we can have a cross in the Quebec National Assembly. I’m surprised we’re not on there. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/64 "2010-09-13T20:02:44Z")
> [@](#): > > As for the Latin American countries, please correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t most of those rebel groups Communist in nature? Historically, Communism has always had a strong atheistic element. Always, except for the times that it has instead had a strong religious (typically Christian) element. Like, say, in Latin America. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/65 "2010-09-13T21:03:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Always, except for the times that it has instead had a strong religious (typically Christian) element. Like, say, in Latin America. Is that liberation theology? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/66 "2010-09-13T21:47:38Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > But for that to work the wearer has to know and understand the true situation, which it appears that many of them don’t. Nor are Voice of the Martyrs making any particular effort to clear up the confusion. If the statement were “This shirt could get you in trouble in 52 countries”, well, that’d be reasonably close to the truth. But “This shirt is illegal in 52 countries” is an outright lie. > > But that doesn’t matter much. I tried responding to a forwarded email about Barack Obama changing the national anthem to “I’d like to buy the world a Coke” with the truth, that it was ripped off from a satirical article written buy some guy in "The Arizona Conservative. I gave his name and the date of publication and everything. > > I received an enormous amount of hostility from folks who were not interested in the truth and continued to mail it out. I tried pointing out that they were stealing the writer’s intellectual property and bearing false witness, and that breaking 20% of the commandments in one short email was pretty impressive, but nobody cared, it made the story better if it was true. Hah, debunking email forwards is a hobby of mine. So much so that an ex-girlfriend of mine will forward me stuff her mom sends her, just because she knows I won’t be able to resist taking the bait. 😃 But yeah, I hate it when folks refuse to let a little thing like the Truth get in the way of them being pissed off about something that someone they didn’t like didn’t even do.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/67 "2010-09-13T23:10:55Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > But that doesn’t matter much. I tried responding to a forwarded email about Barack Obama changing the national anthem to “I’d like to buy the world a Coke” Now I’ve got “I’d like to buy the world a Coke” stuck in my head. I hate that song. And I hate the kind of thinking that allows these people to refuse to let the truth get in the way of a good story. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/68 "2010-09-13T23:38:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@ctnguy](#): > > > > “This t-shirt might get you in trouble in 52 countries, though not necessarily with the government.” isn’t as catchy a slogan, though, is it? 😉 > > How about “This shirt is annoying in 52 countries”? Well, I’d say it’s annoying in at least 192 countries. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/69 "2010-09-14T00:34:04Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Canada is 43% Catholic _and_ we have same-sex marriage. And they had an argument about whether we can have a cross in the Quebec National Assembly. I’m surprised we’re not on there. You’d cross the 419 Scammer Gullibility Border. The 419 SGL is the area of dishonesty you can lie within, but not leave, without defeating the purpose of your own lies. I figured it out myself by sending replies to 419 scammers. I sent increasingly ridiculous replies featuring pictures of my “relatives” that were pictures of Star Wars characters - I mean, like, Darth Vader and stuff - and the Ghostbusters and whatnot. None of the scammers EVER notice I’m claiming Han Solo is my brother, even if he’s standing next to Chewbacca and firing a blaster. Ever. But send them a letter asking them to fill out a ridiculous form, and they’ll usually decline and suddenly run off. You’ve crossed the 419 SGB. See, they’re too stupid and greedy to care if you say your sister is the ghost librarian in Ghostbusters. But they do care, because it intrudes upon their personal space, if you want them to sign something. It’s not the extent of the lie, it’s whether it’s within their circle of understanding. If you tell gullible fundamentalist parishioners that Uzbekistan is mean, mean mean to poor, downtrodden Christians, that flies fine, because to some toothless rube Uzbekistan may as well be Oz or Mars or Tatooine. But if you tell them the same thing about Canada, that (in some cases, not all) could result in a dissonance. Somebody might have a friend or a relative in Canada, or might well have been there with their truck proudly displaying a Jesus fish and all that, and would think “hmmm, that doesn’t jibe with my experience.” The point to the shirt is not that 52 countries would shoot you for it. The number’s irrelevant. It could be 42 or 92 or 292. It doesn’t matter what does or doesn’t happen in Canada or, for that matter, anywhere else; they just needed a few dozen likely suspects most people would be willing to beleive were guilty. The point is “We Christians are a terribly persecuted group! Be afraid! It’s okay to go after other religions and things that frighten us, because we’re just defending ourselves.” ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/70 "2010-09-14T00:57:20Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Utter BS. While Nigeria does indeed have Muslims and sometimes they don’t get along, they have a thriving Christian culture and Christian references are a common part of pop culture in much of the country… > > I think this shirt is just measuring countries anywhere that have significant Muslim populations, under the assumptions that Musims will automatically persecute Christians. > **[Latest news & breaking headlines](https://www.thetimes.com/)** > > The latest breaking UK, US, world, business and sport news from The Times and The Sunday Times. Go beyond today's headlines with in-depth analysis and comment. > [@](#): > > March 8, 2010 > 500 butchered in Nigeria killing fields > > Dozens of bodies lined the dusty streets of three Christian villages in northern Nigeria yesterday. Other victims of Sunday morning’s Muslim rampage were jammed into a local morgue, the limbs of slaughtered children tangled in a grotesque mess. > > One toddler appeared fixed in the protective but hopeless embrace of an older child, possibly his brother. Another had been scalped. Most had severed hands and feet. > > Officials estimate that 500 people were massacred in night-time raids by Muslim gangs near Jos, the city that bestrides Nigeria’s Christian-Muslim fault line. “sometimes they don’t get along”. Excuse me while I vomit. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/71 "2010-09-14T01:06:55Z")
I can’t imagine that wearing a shirt with a cross on it would be illegal in China. I’ve seen people wearing all kinds of crosses and crucifixes on shirts, necklaces, backpacks, etc. The one working church that we have in my city sells t-shirts with pictures of jesus and the cross on them. Also, hmmm, I’ve seen pictures of the Dalai Lama around here before. Several were published in the newspaper during the 2008 riots in Tibet. Pictures of the Dalai Lama in his younger years abound. Though that story about the shirt is pretty funny…or disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/72 "2010-09-14T01:23:36Z")
So the t-shirt is about as accurate as the Bible. That seems fair. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/73 "2010-09-14T02:03:47Z")
My father does missionary work with Youth with a Mission in the Sudan, and apparently that group works closely with the VotM. I get the sense, from what my father shares with me, that they’re all about posturing as fighting against evil Muslim oppression of innocent and holy Christians who are just bringing food and medicine (and the Word) to the benighted polytheistic/animistic heather natives. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/74 "2010-09-14T03:16:28Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > who are just bringing food and medicine (and the Word) to the benighted polytheistic/animistic heather natives. And some more names, I hope. Must be confusing, having all the natives named Heather. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/75 "2010-09-14T03:33:00Z")
:smack: HEATHEN. HEATHEN natives. Although a whole tribe of Heathers might make the movie of the same name that much more awesome. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/76 "2010-09-14T03:52:51Z")
> [@digs](#): > > The reviews of the shirt [on the Voice Of The Martyrs website] just gush about how someone wore this shirt to the county fair and got to witness to SO many people… > > So I wrote a review, titled _ **But…Is It TRUE?** _ > > [QUOTE=myself] > Too many people today assume Christians are exaggerating or lying to make their point. So what do you say when people ask “Is that true?” > I’d have to check their list of countries-- their map lists Mexico (95% Christian), Colombia (98% Christian) and Belarus (80% Christian) and assumes any muslim country to be anti-Cross (even if there’s a strong Christian community that’s tolerated). So I’d have to admit “Well, no… it’s not exactly true.” And that might be a worse witness than a blank T-shirt. [/QUOTE] Okay, I gave them a chance to get the benefit of the doubt, but I wrote the above “review” of the shirt and they said my review of the shirt “has been received”. But they never put it up on the site. I have a feeling it may never show up. Other reviews are posted by people that “haven’t bought a shirt, but it’s a worthwhile investment, and a spectacular way to evangelize.” So maybe their censorship is part-and-parcel of their commitment to Truth-In-Tshirt-ness. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/77 "2010-09-14T04:49:03Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > “sometimes they don’t get along”. Excuse me while I vomit. Nigerias sectarian violence is only marginally about religion (though I have no doubts that the general trend towards religious polarization is increasing the fundamentalist base and adding an element of religious radicalization to the conflict.) You can just as easily say it is about light skinned people versus dark skinned people. Or about desert-dwellers fighting the lush rainforest people. It’s about several separate groups of people, each with a long and proud history of sovereignty going back more than a thousand years, rather suddenly having to share limited but often stunningly lucrative resources and political power with each other. Yes, one of those divides is religion. But religion is just a surface aspect to things- although if we frame the debate right we can probably ensure that radicals get to frame the debate and it does become a religious fight. Anyway, the whole “Nigeria hates Christians” thing is funny because Nigeria is where you find people with names like “God’s-Precious-Joy” and places like “The Praise Jesus on the Mountain We are Saved Hair Salon and Tailor.” Southern Nigeria is e a big evangelical’s wet dream of religious tackiness and the tee shirt would fit right in. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/78 "2010-09-14T05:28:06Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > But, again, they’re not talking about persecution against Christians per se. They’re talking about persecution of Evangelical Christians and Evangelical Christian proselytizing. Echoing sven, the claim is, “This shirt is illegal in 52 countries.” No. It’s not. I’m guessing that the shirt might get you in trouble with the law in 4 countries – North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and possibly Afghanistan.[1] The Chinese example from over 20 years ago leaves me unimpressed. Anyway I pose that question to the board: in how many countries is that shirt illegal? [1] Yemen? Libya? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/79 "2010-09-14T06:26:57Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The point to the shirt is not that 52 countries would shoot you for it. The number’s irrelevant. It could be 42 or 92 or 292. It doesn’t matter what does or doesn’t happen in Canada or, for that matter, anywhere else; they just needed a few dozen likely suspects most people would be willing to beleive were guilty. The point is “We Christians are a terribly persecuted group! Be afraid! It’s okay to go after other religions and things that frighten us, because we’re just defending ourselves.” It fails even at that, since it infers that “Wearing this shirt is perfectly OK in 140+ countries, including every country anyone’d \*choose \*to live in” Not that it matters that much, since I somehow doubt most of the folk purchasing, wearing or even designing these shirts has ever or will ever go past the county line… The shirts themselves are probably made in China though 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512/80 "2010-09-14T13:38:03Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > [@Ichbin\_Dubist](#): > > > > For one thing, Mexico is on their list because the Christians are being persecuted by … Catholics. There may be another interpretation of this. > > The two aren’t mutually exclusive. An area could be Catholic and persecute other Christian groups. But are Catholics likly to outlaw a shirt with a cross on it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-shirt-is-illegal-in-52-countries/553512.md?page=5)