# This stupid fucking bag ban in California **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 27, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112 "2016-11-27T00:02:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/181 "2016-11-29T17:14:45Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Mismanaged plastic waste is not a significant problem in the United States. I agree. However, 10 cents a bag is not a significant burden so it seems a solution on par with the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/182 "2016-11-29T17:29:06Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I agree. However, 10 cents a bag is not a significant burden so it seems a solution on par with the problem. I too do not share the OP’s outrage. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/183 "2016-11-29T17:40:30Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It isn’t. California is a fucking nanny state, we’ll come up with a way to give them money so they can afford the bags. _Soft and sweet, wise and wonderful Oooh, our mystical, magical Nanny Since the day that Nanny came to stay with us Fantastic things keep happening Is there really magic in the things she does? Or is love the only magic thing that Nanny brings? You know our Nanny showed us You can make the impossible happen Nanny told us Have a little bit of faith and lots of love…_ I love me my nanny state, and pay all of my taxes willingly. ---
**Author:** ![Wednesday\_Evening](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Wednesday\_Evening](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wednesday_Evening)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/184 "2016-11-29T20:50:07Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Wikipedia seems to have a reasonable [rundown here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_ban#History). Apparently, San Luis Obispo, California, was the first city in the world to ban smoking in bars as well as restaurants. I have to say, stepping into a bar without seeing anyone smoke was really weird for me the first few times, but it’s quite nice now, even as a once-in-a-long-while smoker. I never did think I would get used to it, but I did. San Luis Obispo County banned plastic bags over 4 years ago. We’re still trailblazers! 😃 You get used to it pretty quickly. I wouldn’t go back. I do think there is a lot less waste now, both in terms of plastic bags and paper bags, as people think twice when you have to pay for something. You do have to be a little careful when buying raw meat to make sure your reusable bag stays clean. We’re such a disposable society, I think this is an easy way to make us slightly less so. If you need trash can liners or pet waste bags, you can buy them. No need to bring the stores into it. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/185 "2016-11-29T21:41:17Z")
There’s a large cardboard barrel at the front of many grocery stores for people to put the plastic bags they don’t want; I’ve seen it in Utah and Georgia. If you’re walking into the store and realize you don’t have any bags, grab a few and leave those you don’t use. (Due to their being used the stores cannot reuse them but there is a sign sating not to leave dirty/trashed bags.) Likewise, we get so many plastic bags w/ our consumables these days that I rarely have to buy food grade plastic bags; I rinse and reuse the bags that held my cereal, chips, tortilla shells and the like. Everything but raw meat. The outer plastic packaging on the large bundle of toilet paper is the size of the usual kitchen trash bag, just cut it from the end rather than unwrapping it like Xmas morning. Seriously, we are surrounded by sources of plastic bags. And if you want a reusable bag in a pinch, they can be made out of a large shirt w/ strategic knots. I’ve packed my groceries in a box and carried them home before; it wasn’t fun but it did the job. I’m lucky now that my mom’s a quilter and will provide me more reusable bags than I could ever need and I don’t take that for granted. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/186 "2016-11-30T03:21:20Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > _Paper_ has margins. That wasn’t a bad attempt at humor. > [@](#): > > Wrong about Japan, of course, although the sloppy writing allows for the possibility that some parts are just Korea but it’s impossible to tell what was intended. “Of course,” is it? Any particular reason for that, let’s call it snippy-ness? > [@](#): > > In Japan wet garbage in not collected separately. They do that here in Taiwan, though. Wet garbage (aka “food waste”) was collected separately in my neighborhood in Zama. > [@](#): > > The idea of having names and addresses in Japan never took off. Too many complaints and it was never a law. I recall there being plenty of talk about it around the time I left Japan. I also recall the metro government being rather adamant about making it a law. Of course I may be mis-remembering the gov’s stance on the issue. Personally, I like the idea of required garbage bagging; the name/address bit does seem to be a bit much, though. > [@](#): > > The “garbage collection service is paid for by the purchase of the garbage bags” must be a Korean thing. Not Japan. Likewise the high fines. The paid for by bags thing is Korean. There were high fines in Zama for improper disposal. > [@](#): > > They charge a few cents for bags here in Taiwan as well. People remember to bring their own bags. In my personal experience with living or visiting places where one has to pay a few cents for a bag for groceries, there wasn’t that much of a gripe about it. The OP seems to be addressing a problem that doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/187 "2016-11-30T15:21:39Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Normally I’m very much a “let the market solve it” person but unfortunately it doesn’t work in this situation. The problem is the bags end up as litter and there’s no way for the market to apply pressure to get it solved. It is an [externality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality). Any solution (assuming you think the bags are a problem, and I do) will require some sort of legislation. If it were left up to me I’d make the cost higher, like 25 cents. The ”problem” is whether or not people want to support stores that give our free plastic bags or not, and the market is perfectly capable of responding to this consumer demand. Instead, a lot of y’all apparently define the problem as bags are polluting the beauty of the environment (I’m glad I don’t live in one of that nasty places). It seems to me that there’s no appropriate incentive that prevents people from throwing away all of their free bags like there is in my neck of the woods. But that’s not a free bag problem; that’s a bad habits problem. It’s kind of like wanting to curb over-drinking by implementing an 18th Amendment. People drank during prohibition anyway, and people will continue to throw their bags away whatever price they pay for them. Case in point, in my state (with an evil bottle deposit law), the state took in $17.8 million in unclaimed bottle/can deposits. That’s 178 million cans and bottles that people simply threw into the landfills. Alcohol, drug, bottle, bag prohibitions, they just don’t focus on the true problem. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/188 "2016-11-30T19:09:59Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I love me my nanny state, and pay all of my taxes willingly. Must be nice to not be on a fixed income. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/189 "2016-11-30T19:12:56Z")
Most of us are on a fixed income. It’s called a salary. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/190 "2016-11-30T19:20:54Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Most of us are on a fixed income. It’s called a salary. You have a chance of a raise. No one in this house does, except for the occasional COLA bump. We will have to sell the house my husband has lived in for 35 years and move out of the area he has lived in for 60+ years when he retires, to protect our retirements from the run away taxes here. If they were actually doing any good, it would be a different thing, but of course they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/191 "2016-11-30T19:51:08Z")
Paraphrasing Steve Martin: Always keep a litter bag in your car: It’s a handy place to store trash, and if it ever gets full, you can just toss it out the window. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/192 "2016-11-30T20:04:01Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Who said anything about conservatives? I’m a liberal, and oppose regressive taxes on the poor. Isn’t that supposed to be the liberal way? Then take a couple of dollars of your own and buy some bags to give to poor people ! I gave my umbrella to a homeless man sitting in the pouring rain . If something bug me I do something about it. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/193 "2016-11-30T22:00:31Z")
> [@purplehearingaid](#): > > Then take a couple of dollars of your own and buy some bags to give to poor people ! I gave my umbrella to a homeless man sitting in the pouring rain . If something bug me I do something about it. The problem with that is that I am the poor people. Would you also be so kind as to send me a few boxes of trash bags, which I didn’t have to buy before but do now, as well? ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/194 "2016-11-30T22:17:52Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > The problem with that is that I am the poor people. > > Would you also be so kind as to send me a few boxes of trash bags, which I didn’t have to buy before but do now, as well? Are you saying there absolutely NO plastic bags or wrappers or non-porous containers in your home whatsoever. B/c if those bags are to line a non-porous container, you don’t need them. Empty the container in the trash wherever it goes after it leaves your home daily and then rinse out the container. If what you need to toss is wet/smelly/broken glass, go toss it straight in the outside/communal trash. As someone who’s cleaned hundred of houses in her lifetime, I can tell you the typical home’s trash isn’t a festering stench pool that must be contained in a plastic bag or everyone in the home is inconvenienced/poisoned. Got lady-product waste? Put it in the provided wrapper and put it in a cardboard box you empty in the outside trash in the next 24 hours. Used needles have their own dedicated sharps containers. I’m not trying to be nosy, but what are you tossing that requires sitting in a plastic bag first? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/195 "2016-11-30T22:20:13Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Alcohol, drug, bottle, bag prohibitions, they just don’t focus on the true problem. I disagree. There is no real penalty for people who throw their bag on the street, or waste management companies that let a few bags blow away when they’re collecting the trash. There is a societal cost (the excess trash) that can’t be dealt with by the market. It’s similar to air pollution; I can buy a high-mileage car but there are a number of people who just don’t care about spewing fumes into the air because it doesn’t cost them anything to do so (without legislation). In general problems with externalities dodge market solutions. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/196 "2016-11-30T22:31:06Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Are you saying there absolutely NO plastic bags or wrappers or non-porous containers in your home whatsoever. B/c if those bags are to line a non-porous container, you don’t need them. Empty the container in the trash wherever it goes after it leaves your home daily and then rinse out the container. If what you need to toss is wet/smelly/broken glass, go toss it straight in the outside/communal trash. Please \* don’t\* stop using bags if you care about litter; they keep the wind from scattering it during transfer. Landfills can take some preventative action such as installing taller fences, but bagless trash causes problems that the ban is supposed to solve. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/197 "2016-11-30T22:31:19Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Are you saying there absolutely NO plastic bags or wrappers or non-porous containers in your home whatsoever. If so, he must not be buying any vegetables. The bag ban in California specifically addresses bags provided _at point of sale_. Plastic bags for produce or bakery goods are still provided in every grocery store, and I find these just dandy for lining the bathroom wastebasket. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/198 "2016-11-30T23:30:28Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > > [@purplehearingaid](#): > > > > Then take a couple of dollars of your own and buy some bags to give to poor people ! I gave my umbrella to a homeless man sitting in the pouring rain . If something bug me I do something about it. > > The problem with that is that I am the poor people. > > Would you also be so kind as to send me a few boxes of trash bags, which I didn’t have to buy before but do now, as well? Your OP made it sound as if your concern was the theoretical burden on poor people in general. Are you now arguing that the concern is the burden that you yourself will suffer? ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/199 "2016-11-30T23:54:39Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Please \* don’t\* stop using bags if you care about litter; they keep the wind from scattering it during transfer. Landfills can take some preventative action such as installing taller fences, but bagless trash causes problems that the ban is supposed to solve. I’m privileged enough to be able to compost, recycle all paper/plastic/metal easily and locally; I’m not poor, I’m more physically able than some people and I have a car that runs fine which I can take my recycling in to the recycling center. I live alone and don’t make much trash that has to be thrown out. The problem for landfills and the environment in general isn’t what’s being thrown away when used, it’s what’s being made and bought in the first place. There are thousands of items made for greater convenience and people have become dependent on them, can’t imagine their lives w/o them. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/200 "2016-12-01T00:05:45Z")
Heh. I just googled “free reusable g” and it autofilled grocery bags. This was the first hit: [https://savingmoney.thefuntimesguide.com/reusable\_shopping\_bags/](https://savingmoney.thefuntimesguide.com/reusable_shopping_bags/) Anyhoo, I don’t see the big deal. The only negative I’ve heard of is cloth bags get moist from leaking meat and can become disease factories but most meat sections these days have plastic bags for meat so no biggie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112.md?page=11)