# This stupid fucking bag ban in California **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 27, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112 "2016-11-27T00:02:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/241 "2016-12-06T23:24:17Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > > [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > > > I don’t know about resource intensive, but it will break down a lot faster in a landfill than a plastic bag and should have less of an environmental impact. > > Since you’re emptying a trash can daily into another trash can, why line it? The can is the liner, is my point. Double containment is where overkill starts. We don’t line outside trash cans, do we? > > Things don’t break down in land fills. newspaper is apparently readable decades after. Plastic bags are a problem when they blow into the ocean, and they are ugly stuck on tree branches, but I don’t think they cause any particular problems in land fills. I’ve heard this also. There was a team of archaeologists from the University of Arizona, I think, who drilled down into landfills for research purposes. I remember they talked about how little things had decayed over a few decades, including food items that looked unchanged and newspapers that looked readable still. They drive heavy equipment over the tops of the piles of fill, to compress stuff, which means there’s little air and I think the landfills are designed to drain water away, so not much decays, at least not quickly. ---
**Author:** ![jbolty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7c8e57/32.png) [@jbolty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbolty)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/242 "2016-12-06T23:38:47Z")
Has anyone factored in the envro impact of washing the reusable bags? If you don’t wash them regularly there is a risk of contamination from any number of things that might leak into the bag. Hot water, soap, bleach, gas, electricity. Busybodies never think through their pet projects. Another observation. Apparently the poor will learn very quickly to bring their bags and adapt to a changing world but at the same time are too stupid, lazy and ill equipped to get a photo ID for voting. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/243 "2016-12-06T23:44:35Z")
> [@jbolty](#): > > Has anyone factored in the envro impact of washing the reusable bags? If you don’t wash them regularly there is a risk of contamination from any number of things that might leak into the bag. What, you don’t wash your clothes? ---
**Author:** ![jbolty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7c8e57/32.png) [@jbolty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbolty)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/244 "2016-12-07T00:04:08Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > What, you don’t wash your clothes? All the time, but I would bet real money that most people don’t wash their grocery bags often or at all. There is plenty of information on this, here’s the first link I found. > **[Experts warn of ‘bag for life’ E-coli health threat - The Sunday Post](https://www.sundaypost.com/news/uk-news/experts-warn-of-bag-for-life-e-coli-health-threat/)** > > Health experts fear outbreaks of food poisoning could soar as a result of the new 5p supermarket bag tax. > [@](#): > > American scientists presented evidence last year that plastic bag bans are bad for public health. Research by Joshua D. Wright from University of Pennsylvania found a 25% jump in A&E admissions for bacterial infections like E. coli after San Francisco banned plastic bags. > > Reporting his findings in the Social Science Research Network journal he said: “The San Francisco ban is associated with a 46% increase in deaths from food-borne illness to a rate of approximately 12 deaths per year.” > > A study by Professor Charles Gerba at University of Arizona, said: “Our findings suggest a serious threat to health, especially from bacteria like E.coli, detected in half the bags sampled. Consumers are alarmingly unaware of these risks and the critical need to sanitise their bags weekly.” > > **A poll carried out by US analysts revealed 97% of shoppers who used eco-friendly bags have never washed or bleached them.** ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/245 "2016-12-07T00:04:22Z")
> [@jbolty](#): > > Has anyone factored in the envro impact of washing the reusable bags? If you don’t wash them regularly there is a risk of contamination from any number of things that might leak into the bag. > > Hot water, soap, bleach, gas, electricity. Busybodies never think through their pet projects. > > Another observation. Apparently the poor will learn very quickly to bring their bags and adapt to a changing world but at the same time **are too stupid, lazy and ill equipped to get a photo ID for voting.** Are we really going to drag a poll tax question into a shopping bag debate? My reusable bags get washed (in cold water) w/ the rest of the laundry, as **running coach** has noted, except the white bags I have dedicated to meat and those go in the hot water bleach cycle. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/246 "2016-12-07T00:18:56Z")
> [@jbolty](#): > > All the time, but I would bet real money that most people don’t wash their grocery bags often or at all. > > There is plenty of information on this, here’s the first link I found. > > [https://www.sundaypost.com/news/uk-news/experts-warn-of-bag-for-life-e-coli-health-threat/](https://www.sundaypost.com/news/uk-news/experts-warn-of-bag-for-life-e-coli-health-threat/) [Facts about San Francisco’s single-use bag ordinance](http://www.savesfbay.org/plastic-bags-are-history-san-francisco) > [@](#): > > The ordinance does not apply to produce bags, bags handed out at the meat counter, or bags for prescription medication. Put your drippy meat in the plastic bags provided in the meat section. Pretty sure they all provide them these days. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/247 "2016-12-07T00:46:50Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > IME I’ve only ever seen a 32 gallon (or larger) can lined if it’s on a job site, never for a household’s curbside trash. It would have to be thick plastic to hold that much weight when lifted and that would mean whatever is inside couldn’t be expected to break down for even longer. Huh, I can’t remember the last time I saw one unlined. But of course, all my neighbors do because it’s required. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/248 "2016-12-07T00:48:25Z")
I have several reusable grocery bags. I never wash them. The grocery store wraps meat in plastic bags, and those I don’t reuse. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/249 "2016-12-07T00:52:01Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Huh, I can’t remember the last time I saw one unlined. But of course, all my neighbors do because it’s required. If I may, where do you live (roughly)? ---
**Author:** ![jbolty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7c8e57/32.png) [@jbolty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbolty)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/250 "2016-12-07T01:30:57Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I have several reusable grocery bags. I never wash them. The grocery store wraps meat in plastic bags, and those I don’t reuse. So instead of using a plastic bag you use a cloth bag and put a plastic bag inside. Where’s the saving there? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/251 "2016-12-07T01:32:39Z")
Meat always gets separately bagged. Either it’s in clear plastic bags, to protect against leaks. That wrapped meat goes into a reusable bag or plastic or if unwrapped, goes in its own reusable bag by itself. No difference. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/252 "2016-12-07T01:36:14Z")
> [@jbolty](#): > > So instead of using a plastic bag you use a cloth bag and put a plastic bag inside. > > Where’s the saving there? :smack: Because you’re only using one or two bags for meat rather than a dozen or more for the entire grocery load. Keep smacking yourself, maybe you’ll bump-start your brain. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/253 "2016-12-07T01:39:50Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Keep smacking yourself, maybe you’ll bump-start your brain. I am stealing this. If I see they’re not too busy I’ll ask the butchers to wrap meat I order in butcher paper. Same for deli. I carry mesh bags for produce so they can go right in the fridge as is if I want them to, saves me a second when I’m putting things away. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/254 "2016-12-07T01:47:47Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Meat always gets separately bagged. Either it’s in clear plastic bags, to protect against leaks. That wrapped meat goes into a reusable bag or plastic or if unwrapped, goes in its own reusable bag by itself. > > No difference. In my experience, the shrink wrapping on the prepackaged meat is really, really good and it’s not even necessary to put the package in a separate plastic bag. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/255 "2016-12-07T01:48:21Z")
Not in mine and it’s not worth the risk of cross contamination. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/256 "2016-12-07T04:20:15Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > If I may, where do you live (roughly)? I’m in the northeast. And the requirement isn’t law, but it’s a requirement of both of the companies you can hire to haul away the trash in my town. (You can also hire no one and bring your trash to the town dump yourself.) > [@jbolty](#): > > So instead of using a plastic bag you use a cloth bag and put a plastic bag inside. > > Where’s the saving there? :smack: I might have four or five large reusable bags, mostly filled with cereal and canned goods and vegetables and milk and laundry detergent and bread and… And within those bags there might be one or two small bags containing meat. Or, the meat may be on its own, in its own bag, separate from the other groceries. (The veggies are mostly in plastic, too, but I often reuse those bags. Usually for non-food.) ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/257 "2016-12-07T22:05:46Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Huh, I can’t remember the last time I saw one unlined. But of course, all my neighbors do because it’s required. I’m not sure I understand the purpose of this, though. In my area we typically use the large trash cans as a collectors of smaller trash bags, i.e., these are trash can liners for smaller, interior trash cans. By time they end up in the collector, there’s no reason to line the collector, is there? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/258 "2016-12-07T23:49:36Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I’m not sure I understand the purpose of this, though. In my area we typically use the large trash cans as a collectors of smaller trash bags, i.e., these are trash can liners for smaller, interior trash cans. By time they end up in the collector, there’s no reason to line the collector, is there? The law of unintended consequences. The trash collector gets fined if their dump site can see that they are putting e recyclables in the trash. They don’t want to spend the time to examine all the trash they collect to insure there aren’t visible recyclables. So they require their customers to hide the trash in an opaque bag, or they won’t collect it. Kid you not. The bags probably also make it easier for them to transfer trash from your trashcan to their truck without spilling. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/259 "2016-12-14T13:09:55Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It isn’t. California is a fucking nanny state, we’ll come up with a way to give them money so they can afford the bags. Damn tootin’. Apple, Google, Cisco, Netflix, AMD, Intel — they’re all tired of suffering under the regime of this North Koraa-lookalike; they’re closing their doors and moving to Mississippi with its enlightened governance and fine schools. The big TV and movie producers are moving to Alabama. Disneyland is going to relocate in Kansas for the tax breaks. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112/260 "2016-12-15T16:46:53Z")
ah! nice sarcasm 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-stupid-fucking-bag-ban-in-california/773112.md?page=14)