# This thread on Trans Ettiquette. What the fucking fuck. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 28, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077 "2017-06-28T19:09:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/1 "2017-06-28T19:09:34Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=829539](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=829539) This thread has some weird ass shit. Like, really, really fucked up. Two posters spring out immediately. One is easy, the other is just… Wat. [So let’s start with the easy one.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20303200&postcount=17) **Darren Garrison** is kind of a tool. If you follow the Stupid SJW Idea Of The Day thread, you may be aware of this. But in this thread, he spends multiple pages arguing that the idea that some topics are bad for casual conversation is “Orwellian”. If his point is something else, he’s making a godawful attempt at saying what he actually means. In any case, he’s a gigantic tool. Now the weird one. > [@Trans etiquette: how bad is this?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-etiquette-how-bad-is-this/789813/170): > > Want to bet? My mother saying she wished had aborted me (which incidentally is true) is the example I use all the time to illustrate what psychological child abuse is. If Jane was worried about someone mentioning her past as John, she would have relocated after the transgendered surgery. The fact that she hasn’t, nor does there seem to be any indication she sees the matter as something she wants to forgot or tried to swear anyone to secrecy seems indicative that Jane is at least comfortable (as she should be) with the fact that she had transgendered surgery. Pretending like it was some disgraceful part of Jane’s past like some crime she has to conceal rather than a wise decision she made for her own well-being does her and other transgendered people more harm than good. I feel like this kinda speaks for itself. Now, I miss things easily, so I guess I missed what the fuck is wrong with **ZPG Zealot**. Can someone _please_ explain to me what the fuck is wrong with **ZPG Zealot**? I am scared and confused and _what the fuck is this shit?!_ ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/2 "2017-06-28T19:14:06Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=829539](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=829539) > > This thread has some weird ass shit. Like, really, really fucked up. Two posters spring out immediately. One is easy, the other is just… Wat. > > [So let’s start with the easy one.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20303200&postcount=17) > > **Darren Garrison** is kind of a tool. If you follow the Stupid SJW Idea Of The Day thread, you may be aware of this. But in this thread, he spends multiple pages arguing that the idea that some topics are bad for casual conversation is “Orwellian”. If his point is something else, he’s making a godawful attempt at saying what he actually means. In any case, he’s a gigantic tool. > > Now the weird one. > > I feel like this kinda speaks for itself. Now, I miss things easily, so I guess I missed what the fuck is wrong with **ZPG Zealot**. Can someone _please_ explain to me what the fuck is wrong with **ZPG Zealot**? I am scared and confused and _what the fuck is this shit?!_ Didn’t she liken an uninvited handshake from a man to rape? If so, 'nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/3 "2017-06-28T19:32:08Z")
The ZPG part stands for Zero Population Growth. She’s alleges that she works in women’s shelters and sees examples of welfare moms collecting checks for breeding or something, so she’s staunchly pro-abortion. Plus, she was abused as a child, her uncle molested her, she lives in a Romany/Jewish colony where certain laws have to be obeyed, all those victim memes. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/4 "2017-06-28T19:35:43Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > **Darren Garrison** is kind of a tool. If you follow the Stupid SJW Idea Of The Day thread, you may be aware of this. But in this thread, he spends multiple pages arguing that the idea that some topics are bad for casual conversation is “Orwellian”. If his point is something else, he’s making a godawful attempt at saying what he actually means. In any case, he’s a gigantic tool. I’ve found that people on the opposite side of an argument from you are very good at accidentally (or deliberately) mis-characterizing what their opposition says, and you do it very well. Think about it relation to the idea of cultural appropriation, where the dominant culture is supposed to avoid subsuming the ideas and customs of a smaller subculture. This is operating in the opposite direction–a smaller subculture–that of trans people–has a custom of never mentioning again a name that they once were identified by, or even that they once were identified as a different sex. But–in the inverse of cultural appropriation, they are insisting that the larger culture–everyone who has ever known them before their transition–abide by the same cultural convention. It is expecting everyone else to abide by a cultural obligation that they never signed up for or agreed to. It is an NDA issued after the fact. And _that_ is what I conciser Orwellian. Someone may be rude, or tasteless, or gossipy, or a jerk from the POV of a trans person if that person mentions the trans person’s past, but if no contract has been made not to mention it, then no contract has been broken by doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/5 "2017-06-28T19:37:51Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Can someone _please_ explain to me what the fuck is wrong with **ZPG Zealot**? I am scared and confused and _what the fuck is this shit?!_ Why on God’s green earth are you scared, little snowflake? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/6 "2017-06-28T19:40:24Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Someone may be rude, or tasteless, or gossipy, or a jerk from the POV of a trans person if that person mentions the trans person’s past, but if no contract has been made not to mention it, then no contract has been broken by doing so. Has it not occurred to you that many people, trans or not, may not want their private affairs being spread around by gossip? And maybe doubly so if that gossip could get them hurt, fired, killed, etc? I can’t believe it’s really that hard of a concept for you to grasp. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/7 "2017-06-28T19:42:04Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Someone may be rude, or tasteless, or gossipy, or a jerk from the POV of a trans person if that person mentions the trans person’s past, but if no contract has been made not to mention it, then no contract has been broken by doing so. I don’t know what you mean by “contract”, but I’d say it’s just as rude and as much of a violation of privacy if you talked publicly about some other private detail of their bodies – like “I knew Bob back when he lost his balls in that combine accident” or “I knew Jane back when she had that abortion” or “I knew Pat since her miscarriage” or “I knew Lisa since before she got implants”… one’s gender identity, just like other personal details about their bodies, are private details that should be entirely in the control of the individual as to whether others learn of them, and to violate that is as bad as revealing any private information about someone’s body publicly. If you disagree, what part of this do you disagree with? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/8 "2017-06-28T19:44:43Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > The ZPG part stands for Zero Population Growth. She’s alleges that she works in women’s shelters and sees examples of welfare moms collecting checks for breeding or something, so she’s staunchly pro-abortion. > > Plus, she was abused as a child, her uncle molested her, she lives in a Romany/Jewish colony where certain laws have to be obeyed, all those victim memes. My uncle never molested me. Where did you ever get such an idea? I volunteer in women’s shelters. I work for pay as an academic librarian and as spiritual advisor. In all three of those environment I have encountered far too many women that choose to have babies because it is the only way they can get money from men of higher economic status (usually, the baby is the default when they can’t get the man to marry them). I’ve found that welfare mothers don’t breed for extra money, simply because they don’t get much money period. I’m pro-abortion for the same reason most people are pro-removal of cancer tumors. It’s frequently the best solution to the problem of unwanted growth in a person’s body. And I live in a nice, normal city. Some of you people live such sheltered lives. Anyone that is slightly different floors you. No wonder so many of you think transgendered people need to live like pariahs in hiding? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/9 "2017-06-28T19:46:05Z")
**ZPG** has more issues than _National Geographic_. I find it best to ignore her lunacy. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/10 "2017-06-28T19:49:18Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Has it not occurred to you that many people, trans or not, may not want their private affairs being spread around by gossip? And maybe doubly so if that gossip could get them hurt, fired, killed, etc? > > I can’t believe it’s really that hard of a concept for you to grasp. Because if the trans person is going about having visibly changed their gender appearance and name over the course of you knowing them, it is no longer a private matter. It’s simply a matter of random public knowledge that when you knew them first they had another gender and name. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/11 "2017-06-28T19:49:36Z")
Having tried more than once to answer **ZPG Zealot** , as his/her arguments devolved in the IMHO thread, it occurred to me too late that the only point s/he really insisted on was, “look at me.” I used to pick up on that a lot sooner. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/12 "2017-06-28T19:53:23Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Because if the trans person is going about having visibly changed their gender appearance and name over the course of you knowing them, it is no longer a private matter. It’s simply a matter of random public knowledge that when you knew them first they had another gender and name. Sorry, but if anything, then it would be a private matter between you and them. And not something you should gossip about with other people. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/13 "2017-06-28T19:55:07Z")
I think the takeaway is, if you know that someone has undergone gender transition, you should never mention it or acknowledge that it happened. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/14 "2017-06-28T19:57:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think the takeaway is, if you know that someone has undergone gender transition, you should never mention it or acknowledge that it happened. > > Regards, > Shodan At least not unless they do first or otherwise make it clear they’re okay with you talking about it, just as how one would handle a friend’s miscarriage, or abortion, or horrific (but hidden) testicular combine accident, or breast cancer/reconstructive surgery, or surgical enhancement, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/15 "2017-06-28T19:58:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Has it not occurred to you that many people, trans or not, may not want their private affairs being spread around by gossip? _Of course_ nobody wants to be gossiped about behind their back. They are incensed about being gossiped about behind their back, and will be sure to mention it while they are gossiping about other people behind _their_ backs. It is what people do. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/16 "2017-06-28T20:00:28Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > _Of course_ nobody wants to be gossiped about behind their back. They are incensed about being gossiped about behind their back, and will be sure to mention it while they are gossiping about other people behind _their_ backs. It is what people do. Is it? I don’t do that. I guess I’m not people then :rolleyes: It’s what morons who think talking about others makes them superior do ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/17 "2017-06-28T20:01:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think the takeaway is, if you know that someone has undergone gender transition, you should never mention it or acknowledge that it happened. > > Regards, > Shodan I think that is a good default position to start from. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/18 "2017-06-28T20:02:41Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > _Of course_ nobody wants to be gossiped about behind their back. They are incensed about being gossiped about behind their back, and will be sure to mention it while they are gossiping about other people behind _their_ backs. It is what people do. So, see if I have this straight. You know that people don’t want to be gossiped about behind their back. That they are incensed about being gossiped about behind their back. And you know that some trans people may be in danger if their status was known to people. And yet, you STILL maintain that it is a correct thing to do?? Come on, man. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/19 "2017-06-28T20:15:20Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So, see if I have this straight. You know that people don’t want to be gossiped about behind their back. That they are incensed about being gossiped about behind their back. And you know that some trans people may be in danger if their status was known to people. > > And yet, you STILL maintain that it is a correct thing to do?? I’m not saying anything about “correct” or “incorrect” I’m just saying what is. People gossip. Maybe not 100 percent of people, but I’d say that pretty close to 100 percent of people–when gathered together–say things (good or bad) about people that aren’t present. It is buried pretty deep in human nature. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077/20 "2017-06-28T20:16:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > At least not unless they do first or otherwise make it clear they’re okay with you talking about it, just as how one would handle a friend’s miscarriage, or abortion, or horrific (but hidden) testicular combine accident, or breast cancer/reconstructive surgery, or surgical enhancement, etc. An abortion, a miscarriage, a horrific testicular combine accident, etc., are tragic, frequently horrific things that people consider themselves lucky to have survived. A transgendered person (or someone who for whatever reason chooses to permanently change their perceived gender) being able to achieve their true self shouldn’t be viewed as a tragedy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-thread-on-trans-ettiquette-what-the-fucking-fuck/790077.md?page=2)