# This whole Elizabeth Smart thing is getting ridiculous **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 27, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904 "2003-10-27T20:06:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/121 "2003-10-31T03:39:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ccwaterback \* > \*\*The Smart’s have already proven their poor judgment by inviting characters like Ricci and Emmanuel into their house. \*\* I think the Smarts are fucking idiots, but I don’t agree with this. Of course hindsight is always 20/20 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/122 "2003-10-31T04:03:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ccwaterback \* > \*\*The Smart’s have already proven their poor judgment by inviting characters like Ricci and Emmanuel into their house. \*\* I’m going along with **World Eater** on this one. While I find a lot of the media coverage to be exploitive and distasteful, and while the Smart’s may be at least partially responsible for it, I see no reason to villify them for trying to do good deeds by hiring homeless people top work at their home. I also don’t like the implication that homeless people cannot be trusted or that they’re all would-be kidnappers. If the Smart’s had a failing it was that they were naive and open-hearted which is no failing at all, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/123 "2003-10-31T04:09:15Z")
I would have to say in theory, yeah it’s a good deed to help out homeless people. But invite them into your house? I think if you invite enough drifters into your life you are asking for trouble. Drifters tend to be desperate, and mentally ill. IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/124 "2003-10-31T05:10:33Z")
So, cc; you think they hired them as babysitters or to do a job of work such as drywall? C’mon, it’s not like you haven’t insinuated criminal activity on the part of other innocents. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/125 "2003-10-31T05:37:59Z")
I sure wouldn’t parade homeless strangers though my house, and I don’t even have children, or the spoils of the well-to-do on display. This whole charade just reeks of bad karma. These people were one of the very, very few lucky ones that had a happy ending to a tragic episode. I think they are flapping their wings a bit too hard now, for the almighty dollar. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/126 "2003-10-31T09:27:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*If the Smart’s had a failing it was that they were naive and open-hearted which is no failing at all, IMO. \*\* There’s another name for naive, open-hearted people, they’re call victims. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/127 "2003-10-31T13:02:53Z")
Weren’t you insinuating earlier that they were more like culprits? ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/128 "2003-10-31T13:06:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Weren’t you insinuating earlier that they were more like culprits? \*\* Culprits can’t be victims? ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/129 "2003-10-31T13:10:29Z")
I just think we have to keep an open mind about things and think objectively. I hardly ever say - this is true and that is false - the world is rarely black or white, there are grey areas. I try to consider the motivations behind people’s actions. What are the two biggest motivators in anyone’s life? **RELIGION** and **MONEY**. Now that I can say for sure, in big bold lettering. Also, in an open forum like SDMB, please try to focus your attack on the issues raised by a poster, and not the poster personally. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/130 "2003-10-31T13:18:26Z")
Well, it would be nice, ccwaterback, if you would keep an open mind. Your posting’s in this thread certainly don’t show that you’re doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/131 "2003-10-31T13:20:12Z")
\ Make that: “Your postings in this thread […].” ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/132 "2003-10-31T13:32:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Well, it would be nice, ccwaterback, if you would keep an open mind. Your posting’s in this thread certainly don’t show that you’re doing so. \*\* Please explain how I am not being objective. I have two post in this thread I would like to erase, but I’m sure that happens to all of us at one time or another. My original post about “people from Utah, enough said”, was inappropriate. I am usually not sarcastic, my apologies. Also I try not to attack people personally, but if someone misquotes me it’s really hard to hold back emotions. I will try harder. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/133 "2003-10-31T16:51:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > Your turn on this one… cite? I believe, if the parents were against a TV movie being made about their daughter’s experience, using her name and their names and the events of her case, then they could take legal steps to stop it. Please, do correct me if I’m wrong. You’re wrong. My cite is the First Amendment to the US Constitution. When a person is a public figure, by virtue of seeking that status (politician, movie star) or having it thrust upon them (newsworthy crime victim) they don’t have much in the way of legal ammunition. They could certainly sue for falsehoods, but they’d have to prove not only that the statement made was false, but that it was made with knowledge of its falsity and with actual malice. I think the relevant case is _New York Times v. Sullivan_. They don’t need to give permission to the producers of a TV movie. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/134 "2003-10-31T16:54:57Z")
That wasn’t just inappropriate, ccwaterback; it was stunningly stupid and close-minded. That was also reinforced with your stunningly stupid comment > [@](#): > > Oh goodness Monty, what would the church think about a comment like that? Then you dredged this from who knows where: > [@](#): > > But when are they going to give us all the juicy details of the sexual assault? Isn’t that what the American public TV News zombies really want to know? Eat it up folks, I hope you swallow every word the media feeds you. Thus considering the public as a mindless whole. Open your mind and you might realize that some folks might just want to see that (a) the victims are not castigated & (b) the victims can be strong in their survival. Then this complete antithesis of brilliance: > [@](#): > > Doesn’t anyone here think the church might have something to do with this? Wouldn’t the Smart’s rely on the church’s opinion for every move they make? The first sentence is an insinuation indicting the church the victim belongs to. The second sentence is, to be blunt, a damn stupid comment on the faith of the Smarts. Then you immediately followed it with: > [@](#): > > Well they wouldn’t want to go against the church if they are good Mormons, right? Which really doesn’t have a damn thing to do with the “argument” you’d advanced so far. Next up to the plate was this gem: > [@](#): > > I’m just bringing up a relevant point here. This whole case revolves around religion, shouldn’t we be considering their religion’s influence in our discussion? But if you want to play the childish name-calling game, I can do that too, it’s up to you. > > WWJD? So you pretend it’s relevant when it’s not. Then you say the whole case revolves around religion so we must consider her religion when her religion doesn’t have a damn thing to do with her abduction. Then you make the comment about childish name-calling. Heck, you’ve been doing the childish accusation without proof all along! Finally you put the bumper sticker question in, which isn’t really relevant here to your “argument.” Next is this pearl: > [@](#): > > Well I’m not one of those hypocrites that walks around being a total asshole to my fellow human beings all week, then hides behind the Bible every Sunday morning, so I really don’t know how their thought process works. > > But really, in this case, WWJD? The first paragraph is a complete nonsequiter. The next question is probably answered by: "The thing the Smarts did: try to help those who are less fortunate thean they in the case of the drifters & show some decency and compassion towards the victim in the case of Elizabeth. TDB you haven’t figured that one out yet. Digging even closer to the barrel bottom you offer this: > [@](#): > > If the Smarts did NOT get the blessing of their church to exploit their daughter, then they are not being very good Mormons. > > If they did get the blessing of the church, and the church is in it for a cut of the action, then the church is being more hypocritical than the Smarts. > > WWJD? Where you again assert the Smarts must get permission from their church before embarking on a particular action & accusing the church of being more hypocritical than the Smarts, thus accusing them of being hypocrites when you have zero proof, “in it” for some money. As for WWJD?, perhaps he’d tell you to quit tossing his name around tagged onto closeminded asinine comments. Apparently not satisifed with talking utter crud, you add this to the mix: > [@](#): > > It’s not my intention to hurt anyone’s feelings. I certainly feel sorry for the young lady, what has happened to her, what is happening to her, and what will happen to her. I just wanted to point out that the Smart’s, or whoever is controlling their actions, are being very hypocritical. OK, that’s all I’m going to say, continue on with your evaluation of Oprah’s presentation style. Where you [list][li]Say it’s not your intention to hurt feelings when you’re clearly tossing insults around designed to hurt feelings.[/li][li]Saying you feel sorry for her when you’ve already condemned her religion, so that seems to me you’re kind of putting some of the blame onto her what with her being a member of that religion you condemn.[/li][li]Insinuate AGAIN that it’s the LDS church controlling the Smarts’ actions.[/li][/quote] Oh, let’s not forget this lovely bit: > [@](#): > > Who said anything about hate? Religions teach people to hate. I’m not religious. Where you condemn ALL religions. & this inane suggestion to Diane: > [@](#): > > I think you may have had a little bit too much religious influence in your younger years, you might need to be de-programmed. That needs no further comment other than what’s already been posted. Of course you couldn’t let much more time pass without yet again blaming the victim: > [@](#): > > I think if you invite enough drifters into your life you are asking for trouble. Drifters tend to be desperate, and mentally ill. IMO. At least you identified your stupid assertions about “drifters” as an opinion. And yet again casting aspersions on the Smarts: > [@](#): > > I think they are flapping their wings a bit too hard now, for the almighty dollar. But at least you said you think that’s what’s happening. Of course, you’ve no evidence or support for that, but hey, you have a right to an opinion–no matter how stunningly stupid that opinion may be. And another insinuation of the Smarts being to blame for the abduction: > [@](#): > > Culprits can’t be victims? There’s also this: > [@](#): > > The Smart’s have already proven their poor judgment by inviting characters like Ricci and Emmanuel into their house. That’s a heck of a lot more than two posts. It proves you’re not objective. It also proves you’re not exactly too bright either. So, which of these absolutely asinine comments of yours is the other post besides the utterly stupid comment about living in Utah you want to remove? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/135 "2003-10-31T16:59:53Z")
In addition to hosing the coding on the close list, I left out cc’s comment about logic to Diane. CC, you did insinuate that you don’t hate because you said it’s religions that teach people to hate. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/136 "2003-10-31T17:08:19Z")
BTW, where exactly were you misquoted? ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/137 "2003-10-31T17:12:07Z")
Thanks Bricker, that was what I thought (although I wasn’t 100 percent positive nor able to provide cites). It validates my belief that it would be a foolishly stupid and naive thing for the Smart family NOT to be involved in movies about their daughter. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/138 "2003-10-31T18:46:46Z")
**Monty** - Gee, I don’t know where to start. OK, let’s start with the biggie: Religions teach people to hate. I’m not religious. So, what can we conclude from these statements? A person that has no logical capabilities whatsoever could conclude: ONLY religious people hate. Read the two sentences again. I’m not religious, so I have not been taught to hate. The hate seed in me has not been nurtured. I still have the ability to hate, but I have not been schooled on the finer points of hating. Non-religious people can hate too, I just choose not to. I don’t think I really have to go any further. If you lack the reading comprehension and deductive reasoning capabilities of the average man on the street, I don’t want to waste too much time trying to explain myself to you. If I were you, I would base every decision in my life on what Oprah and Catie say, you’ll be much safer that way. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/139 "2003-10-31T18:53:18Z")
I believe you’ve already reached the bottom of that barrel in which you’re dregging up your inane "arguments,’ ccwaterback. Your presentation above of how sweet & innocent you are in this is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904/140 "2003-10-31T18:58:47Z")
p.s. I already know you have the ability to hate as you’ve proven that sufficiently with your postings in this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-elizabeth-smart-thing-is-getting-ridiculous/209904.md?page=8)