# This whole sexual accusation thing – a perspective I’ve not heard discussed **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 2, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295 "2017-12-02T02:24:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/21 "2017-12-02T07:41:19Z")
I was wrongly accused of sexual harassment (and later abused in the same general location) when I was about 4 years-old. In retrospect I wonder if it had a lot to do with my lack of social development. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/22 "2017-12-02T07:41:42Z")
That kind of thing is always on my mind, but I don’t let it change my behavior. If someone accuses me I’ll have faith in the system, and if some angry dad comes at me I’ll either run away or teach his kid that false accusations have consequences. Namely, it gets your dad hospitalized. Fortunately, I’ve never been in that situation and hope I never will be. I’m hoping that it’s a struck by lightning type of situation: can happen to anyone, but probably won’t happen to me. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/23 "2017-12-02T07:50:21Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Reasonable caution is a good thing. I’ve been in a couple of situations that made me extremely nervous. We had a neighbor with a young daughter (grade school) who came to our house on many occasions just to “hang out”. There was no male presence to speak of at home and she saw us a surrogate grandparents. But she was very clingy and would fling herself on me. I always gently removed her, but I told my wife not to leave us alone together. I also wouldn’t let her come into the house if I was home alone. I know her mom trusted us, but still . . . > > Another time, at a public campground, I went into the men’s room and there were two young girls in there for some reason. I told them they needed to leave, but they were reluctant. So I left and waited outside. They came out eventually and headed for their campsite. I followed them over there and spoke with the father about the incident. Sheesh. Positive touching is not just a good thing, but essential for proper socialization. I completely understand where you’re coming from, but I’m concerned about how the moral panic around pedophilia is affecting society. It’s basically putting a wall between kids and adults who aren’t related to them, when ironically kids are more likely to be sexually abused by family members than strangers. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/24 "2017-12-02T08:58:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That kind of thing is always on my mind, but I don’t let it change my behavior. If someone accuses me I’ll have faith in the system, and if some angry dad comes at me I’ll either run away or teach his kid that false accusations have consequences. Namely, it gets your dad hospitalized. > > Fortunately, I’ve never been in that situation and hope I never will be. I’m hoping that it’s a struck by lightning type of situation: can happen to anyone, but probably won’t happen to me. See, I think about this sometimes, trying to work out the hypothetical, sort of rehearsing just in case. I’m not really sure how I’d react. Being a Dad myself, I get where an upset father is coming from. At the same time, I wonder how tightly Dad is wrapped around the kiddo’s finger or if Dad was a bully in his youth or something when I see a dad that refuses to use reason or at least maintain a cool calm demeanor in these situations. Some dads are just on a hair trigger for anger, especially about perceived improprieties towards their (by my observations, almost exclusively always female) family members. I dunno, I think I’d rather confront a drunk and angry husband over an imagined slight or groping of his wife or girlfriend than a sober and fighting-mad dad. I know the scenario posited by **MMM** might seem extreme, but it’s really not. I’ve seen that very thing happen, with only minor differences in detail or setting on more than one occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/25 "2017-12-02T10:17:42Z")
I’ve read reports from guys on other forums about something that’s happened to them at the big outdoor summer music festivals. They’ll have a beer in their hands and a teen girl will surprise them and grab it out of their hands. When the guy reacts, the girl will warn him with something like “you come near me and I’ll yell rape.” The guys usually just slink away. Obviously, this was happening before the whole Harvey Weinstein thing (summer festival season was over). If you are an adult male, just stay away from any children who aren’t your own. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/26 "2017-12-02T10:26:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t worry about it because I don’t believe your premise. > > Sexual harassment accusations are like any other criminal accusations. You won’t be convicted on the unsupported word of one accuser. Especially a child. Justice isn’t free. Unless you have a full-time criminal attorney on your household staff, defending yourself in court is going to cost tens of thousands of dollars. And you will probably get fired from your job when your employer hears you’ve been arrested for child sex abuse. By the time the trial is over, even if your employer believes you are totally innocent, your position will have been filled by someone else. Oh, and hope you can afford bail or you will be sitting in a jail cell for months awaiting trial. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/27 "2017-12-02T10:57:20Z")
Yeah, false accusations have serious consequences for the accused even if we assume the justice system works as it should. Still, again, you can’t live your life afraid. And society would actually be ruined and is in the process of being ruined because people have so much fear. Parents already don’t let their kids out of the house before they are teenagers unsupervised in part because they think someone will kidnap them or sodomize them. Parents even get snippy now when a stranger talks to their kids in their presence. Maybe it’s different in smaller towns where everyone knows each other, but the cities and suburbs are becoming even more impersonal places than they used to be, even though we’re much safer now than 30 years ago when parents just told their kids, “Go out and play”. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/28 "2017-12-02T11:57:36Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I went to see a movie by myself last week. Sitting to my left was a young girl, maybe 6 or 7; to her left, her father (I presume). A normal day, a normal occurrence. > > Except, with all the sexual stuff that has permeated the media over the past several weeks, I had a random but horrifying thought: what if this girl said something to her dad along the lines of ‘that man touched me’. > > Here is what if: my life would be ruined. Just like that. That is all it would take to destroy my world. > > I considered changing seats (I didn’t). I consciously edged myself toward the right, feeling stupid for doing so. I didn’t enjoy the movie as much as I would have if the thought had never entered my mind, because it never totally left my mind. Would you have had the same reaction if it was a young boy? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/29 "2017-12-02T12:02:38Z")
Wow, I didn’t expect so much support (aside from **Little Nemo** , who completely missed the point 🙂 ). I guess adult males are no longer allowed to interact with minors on any level. If I were driving in an unfamiliar town and I craved a Slurpee, I’d better not roll down the window and ask the kids on the corner if there is a 7-11 nearby. A description of me and my vehicle will end up on the local news. mmm ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/30 "2017-12-02T12:16:56Z")
I guess now every male knows what it’s like to be profiled. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/31 "2017-12-02T12:37:53Z")
I am amazed as MMM that he’s getting support for this. It strikes me as totally paranoid. But then, I’ve worked with kids for a decade, often the only adult in the room with a bunch of kids. False accusations are one of those things like shark attacks that happen, but not often enough to get worked up over. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/32 "2017-12-02T12:50:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I guess now every male knows what it’s like to be profiled. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I am amazed as MMM that he’s getting support for this. It strikes me as totally paranoid. But then, I’ve worked with kids for a decade, often the only adult in the room with a bunch of kids. False accusations are one of those things like shark attacks that happen, but not often enough to get worked up over. Well, in my case I do know what it is like to be accused a little bit. When I was 12, I was accused as the ringleader (much to my surprise) of a group of boys at church camp one summer that was supposedly planning a panty raid. Had a long group on one sit down talk with the adult camp leadership about that, and never did find out who my accuser was. Since that time, if a female came to me and said I did something that made her mad or uncomfortable I’ve been very quick to get someone else there and then talk to her and explain and if needed apologize. OTOH I’ve also had my ass and crotch grabbed unwantedly by a girl and was told to brush it off and avoid her if possible. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/33 "2017-12-02T13:05:24Z")
Dammit, premature posting and missed the edit window (I blame the cat, never leave a computer attended by a cat). I meant to say that many sexual harassment policies are, or are perceived to be worded or interpreted and applied unevenly, with all the advantages being given to women, putting them on a weird sort of pedestal, and men being automatically assumed to be guilty regardless of what is proven in a court of law and being given a reputation that can follow them the rest of their lives, and if a man files a claim, that he will get the brush off at best, ridiculed and labeled “whiner” or “not a team player” and then shunned at worst. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/34 "2017-12-02T13:06:27Z")
I’ve been grabbed a few times, I’ve never really understood why it’s supposed to be so traumatizing. It’s certainly unwelcome and those who do it should be warned not to do it or else, but I just don’t get the PTSD issues some people get from it. But I guess everyone’s feelings are different. Left HAnd, we live in an increasingly paranoid society. There are so many ways in which things are better now than when I was a kid, which is why lack of trust seems so weird to me. Back in the 80s, there was so much more reason to be afraid, and yet we’re more risk averse now. But yeah, you’re shark attack analogy is spot on. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/35 "2017-12-02T13:17:32Z")
For guys, mostly, I think being grabbed is not the traumatizing part. Its finding that the company policy is worded in a way that makes HIM the one guilty of wrong doing, or that is worded such that the assumption is that women don’t do this or is applied that way, and there is a presumption that a male can never have a work environment that is hostile to him because of a woman. Happily though, this is starting to change and people now recognize that women are just as capable of predatory behavior as men. Give it another 20 or 30 years and I think things probably will be much more equal between the sexes in a way that is much more fundamental than pay or promotion at work. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/36 "2017-12-02T13:32:30Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I guess adult males are no longer allowed to interact with minors on any level. Oh, gimme a break. I’m the father of a 10 year old boy. I’ve obviously had many times when I’ve interacted with his friends, and with random kids on the playground, and equally random schoolmates of his at school functions, like the book fair and holiday craft bazaar last night. Yeah, there’s some due caution you exercise (e.g. you don’t touch a kid unless it’s unavoidable, you don’t let your eyes linger on any one child who isn’t interacting with your own child, stuff like that) but other than that you act naturally and everything’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/37 "2017-12-02T13:42:53Z")
Don’t let your eyes linger? Um, that sounds pretty paranoid, almost like jail survival skills. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/38 "2017-12-02T13:52:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Don’t let your eyes linger? Um, that sounds pretty paranoid, almost like jail survival skills. I certainly don’t want some girl going over to her father or teacher and saying, “that man is looking at me a lot.” Just seems to me like reasonable caution. ETA: Hell, even if this hypothetical girl doesn’t _say_ anything, I’d rather not have her feel my gaze to begin with, don’t want her wondering why this old guy is looking at her. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/39 "2017-12-02T14:12:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Don’t let your eyes linger? Um, that sounds pretty paranoid, almost like jail survival skills. Bah. I do some similar things: when I’m at the playground with my kids, and other kids come to play with them, I communicate through body language that I’m not particularly interested in the other kids. It’s easy to do, it gets the kids focused on each other instead of me, and if there is a paranoid adult around, it’s gonna ease their paranoia. [This article](https://theestablishment.co/due-process-is-needed-for-sexual-harassment-accusations-but-for-whom-968e7c81e6d6) may be good reading for some of y’all: > [@the article](#): > > [T]he fixation on ‘due process’ for these men was an attempt to re-center the concerns of men. How the question itself was absurd, because if there’s anything these stories show, it’s that these men in their years of open abuse were given more than just due process — but the women, many of whom had tried bringing this abuse to those in authority years before, were given no process at all. We’re seeing a super overdue focus on sexual harassment and assault by powerful men. To turn this into an occasion for hand-fluttering worries, “What about MEEEEE???”, frightened of statistically nonexistent scenarios (seriously, show me the articles about men whose lives are ruined by sitting next to a child at a theater), is a disservice to yourself and to others. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295/40 "2017-12-02T14:12:39Z")
> [@guestchaz](#): > > For guys, mostly, I think being grabbed is not the traumatizing part. Its finding that the company policy is worded in a way that makes HIM the one guilty of wrong doing, or that is worded such that the assumption is that women don’t do this or is applied that way, and there is a presumption that a male can never have a work environment that is hostile to him because of a woman. IMO, it’s not the ‘being grabbed’ per se that’s the traumatising bit for anyone, it’s the feeling of powerlessness and someone else seizing control over you that’s the actual issue. I’ve had multiple random babies unexpectedly grab a boob, and they get a laugh and ‘Hey! stop that!’, but it’s the same unwanted physical sensation as when some creepy guy does it. The difference is the power differential; when it’s a baby grabbing me, I’m still in control, when it’s a big drunk guy, I’m probably not. When working in security, one of my male coworkers got groped by a drunk woman a good 20 years older than him. She got him backed up against a wall, wouldn’t let go of his crotch, and kept repeating that he must be liking it, while a bunch of her friends stood round laughing. He was a 6’+ boxer, but in that situation he was powerless; if he’d tried to punch or physically overpower her, he would certainly have lost his job, and likely have been arrested, he couldn’t do anything but yell at her to stop, which she ignored. No cameras, his word against 5 of them (I came in just after she let go). I’m not saying he got flashbacks and full-on trauma, but he was really shaken up, and he quit not long after. It didn’t help that the troglodyte of a supervisor (who would have raised hell if it had been female me being grabbed by a man) just laughed and asked how hot she was. If anything, I reckon the fact that he was a big guy and used to being in control made it worse for him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-whole-sexual-accusation-thing-a-perspective-i-ve-not-heard-discussed/803295.md?page=3)