# This writer claims there are virtually no female Jewish lead roles outside of Holocaust films- True? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437 "2010-05-23T04:30:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/61 "2010-05-25T06:05:15Z")
[Amanda Peet](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001605/) is my favorite actress to rise above the stereotypes. This woman can’t be typecast, and is a high caliber of female lead. Drama, Comedy, Serious, Sexy … she can do it all. She just went into it head first… damn the conventions. Personally, I think Natalie Portman is just as defiant to typecasting and of as great artistic diversity as Amanda Peet or more. Nat just might be a little more believable as an actress… they are both damn sexy women. I just think Natalie hasn’t quite found her role. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/62 "2010-05-25T09:52:14Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > But to me that is “really Jewing it up”. It’s the equivalent of having an Italian wear loud suits, or or having an gay man with an in depth knowledge of broadway musicals. To me it’s a real cheap gimmick that a hinges on stereotypes. The thing is that most Jews in the real world aren’t like that, at least in my experience. Middle aged and older maybe, but younger Jews just aren’t that stereotyped. In most cases they are just indistinguishable, ordinary people. The schlemiel/schnook isn’t exactly a Hollywood invention (although few dispute that [Hollywood is a Jewish invention](http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Their-Own-Invented-Hollywood/dp/0385265573/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274780886&sr=8-1)), but Jews who try not to “act” Jewish are, within the community, maligned as assimilators; this is not a welcomed thing in most ethnic groups. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/63 "2010-05-25T10:22:34Z")
> [@Quercus\_alba](#): > > Someone needs to make a movie length version of “The Nanny”, I guess. \ _Never_ say that again!! ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/64 "2010-05-25T11:25:32Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I’ve never even heard of any of those except _Wedding Crashers_. I saw Heights because the cable guide listed Elizabeth Banks as the lead, and Dummy for both Adrien Brody and Milla Jovovich. Dummy has been mentioned a few times here on the boards. Looking at the IMDb page for Defiance, I’d like to see it for Alexa Davalos. It should be in cable rotation right now, though it sounds familiar so I might have missed it. Suzie Gold has such a bad title I have no interest in even looking it up on IMDb. I was frankly surprised at the signal to noise ratio of that list. I figured that like most keyword searches on IMDb, most of the entries would come up as completely obscure never-aired never-released straight-to-DVD-in-Asia type projects. From what I’ve seen at least 4 of the 5 are actual, honest to god feature films. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/65 "2010-05-25T12:18:53Z")
Kristin Stewart’s character in _Adventureland_ was Jewish, at least ethnically – her stepmother wore a wig and she said her father met her at temple. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/66 "2010-05-25T18:15:44Z")
Sorry, I responded to what I read and not what was said. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/67 "2010-05-25T18:50:35Z")
In the movie Saved! one of the main characters is a Jewish female. Also in the movie 50 First Dates they have a Jewish wedding so it can be assumed that if Drew Barrymore’s character wasn’t originally Jewish that she converted. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/68 "2010-05-25T21:17:29Z")
That article’s crazy. Everyone knows that Details announced that [Jewesses are now allowed to be attractive.](http://www.details.com/sex-relationships/dating-and-cheating/200912/hot-jewish-girls-fetish-jilfs?currentPage=1) There are quite a few examples here, and while it’s true that any character’s religion or ethnicity can be left out if it’s not relevant, I do think you see it more with male, Jewish characters – and the WASPS they fall for – than female ones. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/69 "2010-05-26T01:42:23Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > …while it’s true that any character’s religion or ethnicity can be left out if it’s not relevant, I do think you see it more with male, Jewish characters – and the WASPS they fall for – than female ones. That’s gotta mean something. And if (as you suggest) it goes _against_ a wider trend in society, it must say something about who’s making the creative decisions. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/70 "2010-05-26T02:43:47Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > Kristin Stewart’s character in _Adventureland_ was Jewish, at least ethnically – her stepmother wore a wig and she said her father met her at temple. I haven’t seen the movie, but I think this a the sort of approach that works without having to perpetuate stereotypes or anything like that. Details about a character can come out naturally that indicate a character is Jewish without necessarily coming out and saying it. (Not to say that coming out and saying it isn’t sometimes something that happens in real life.) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/71 "2010-05-26T04:43:14Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > I wish I had my old Lenny Bruce autobio where he talks at length about what makes some things in the culture Jewish and others goyish. Peppering dialogue with Yiddish terms, being a snob about using brown mustard instead of mayo on a corned beef sandwich (or about using Miracle Whip instead of mayo in tuna salad), gushing about the pure joy of an egg cream, championing the Marx Brothers, Woody Allen or Billy Joel decades after their respective primes, owning numerous Allan Sherman albums on vinyl, ranting about the injustices suffered by Julius and Ethel Rosenberg or Jonathan Pollard… There are lots of cultural clues that a character is Jewish. A really bad way to do it was in **Casino** , where everybody kept reminding the audience that Robert DeNiro’s character was supposed to be Jewish even though he acted like the same Italian hood he’s played in innumerable prior movies. IIRC [Lenny Bruce died in 1966](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenny_Bruce). Jonathan Pollard’s being caught for spying for Israel [happened in 1985.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/72 "2010-05-26T13:24:48Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > That article’s crazy. Everyone knows that Details announced that [Jewesses are now allowed to be attractive.](http://www.details.com/sex-relationships/dating-and-cheating/200912/hot-jewish-girls-fetish-jilfs?currentPage=1) From the linked article: > [@](#): > > reports of JILF-on-JILF action between Natalie Portman and Mila Kunis in Darren Aronofsky’s upcoming Black Swan Natalie Portman and Mila Kunis macking on each other? I’m so there. And it’s directed by Darren Aronofsky? Holy crap, greatest movie ever. heh. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/73 "2010-05-30T14:29:40Z")
> [@astro](#): > > IIRC [Lenny Bruce died in 1966](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenny_Bruce). Jonathan Pollard’s being caught for spying for Israel [happened in 1985.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard) Yes, and since I couldn’t find my copy of **How to Talk Dirty and Influence People** , I simply started naming other stuff that could indicate Judaic content. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/74 "2010-05-30T15:00:10Z")
Some more I thought of. These do _not_ all apply by themselves, but combine 2 or 3 of them may create a vibe. - dropping NYC-area placenames into dialog - giving characters stereotypically Jewish names - not just old favorites like Seymour or Roz, but more fashionable ones like Seth or Rebecca - gratuitous kvetching or neurotic behaviors eg: talking about one’s digestion, helicopter parenting, obsession with anything trivial - gratuitous nebbish behaviors eg: big glasses, tinny voice, freaking out over animals, nature, or machinery - occupational tip-offs eg: retailing, clothing, law, medicine, arts/entertainment, media) - political tip-offs eg: stereotypical activist behavior - speech tip-offs eg: using _also_ in place of _too_; frequent rhetorical questions; singsong recitals (“I went to the _mall_-to-the-_carwash_-to-the-_drugstore_…”); many many more ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/75 "2010-05-30T15:55:17Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > How many non-WWII movies from 2000-2010 feature male jews a protagonists? I can only think of two movies where a male’s jewish faith was important to the role: Keeping The Faith (2000) and Stolen Summer (2002) and the male in question in the latter was a small boy. You don’t mess with the Zohan And on a smaller scale, I think there was a cable movie called The Hebrew Hammer which had sort of a similiar protagonist (Super Jew beating up bad guys) ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/76 "2010-05-30T16:27:35Z")
It’s not a movie, it’s a TV show, but Lea Michele plays an explicitly Jewish character in _Glee_, which is extremely non-Holocaust in tone. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/77 "2010-05-30T16:36:34Z")
How do they establish her Jewishness - is it stereotypical? It’s a comedy, so stereotypes work (sadly). ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/78 "2010-05-30T16:51:13Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > Kristin Stewart’s character in _Adventureland_ was Jewish, at least ethnically – her stepmother wore a wig and she said her father met her at temple. That strikes me as weird, because only Reform Jews have temples, and no Reform Jew would wear a wig. **pbbth** , Reform rabbis will perform interfaith marriages, no conversion necessary. (I think they have to agree to raise their children Jewish.) ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/79 "2010-05-30T16:54:23Z")
It is sometimes used in stereotypical ways (it’s a musical comedy, so her basic existence in the theatre world is a stereotype, although she’s a bit of a JAP, too) but the writers also make a point of comparing her to Barbara Streisand, and Rachel talks about it fairly often. Now that I think about it, another Jewish character on the show is particularly non-stereotypical. Puck is athletic, popular, a bit of a bully, does poorly academically, and sleeps around. The only way in which Puck is stereotypical is his Jewish mother who disapproves of his dating goys. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437/80 "2010-05-30T16:57:29Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > How do they establish her Jewishness - is it stereotypical? It’s a comedy, so stereotypes work (sadly). It is explicitly stated. She also references Streisand as a role model. What is more interesting is Puck. Until we learned that he was Jewish, the only identifiably Jewish male was the side character Jacob Ben Israel who is both nerdy and creepy. My speculation: Someone got uncomfortable with how far they had gone with Jacob. They needed to balance him out. The solution. Make the hunky but brutish Puck Jewish. He breaks all the stereotypes and they get a few jokes out of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-writer-claims-there-are-virtually-no-female-jewish-lead-roles-outside-of-holocaust-films-true/540437.md?page=5)