# This year has reportedly seen a spate of attacks by orcas ("killer whales") against boats in the Strait of Gibraltar **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 14, 2020, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611 "2020-09-14T21:57:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2024, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/82 "2024-05-22T18:34:16Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > fisherman attacking orcas in a misguided attempt to preserve fish stocks. Is this in fact a thing that has happened? Given mankind’s long sad history of attempting to eradicate animals that prey on resources the humans feel entitled to, I don’t doubt it’s happened. Attributing the orca attacks to it, though, is unproven and likely unprovable. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/83 "2024-05-22T19:49:15Z")
Perhaps it’s just that Orcas are assholes. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2024, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/84 "2024-05-22T20:14:21Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > As both your cites show, and as the headline of the second - **“Scientists Don’t Know Why”** - makes perfectly clear, we in fact cannot connect boats with orcas being killed or injured. Yes, the fact that humans on boats hurt an orca, and they are retaliating is but one theory. However, fishermen randomly killing Orcas- especially that endangered population- is a great reason to say-No- just stop fucking with them is the best choice. This cite explains the long running competiton between marine mammals and fishermen- [https://www.wellbeingintlstudiesrepository.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1007&context=sota\_2005](https://www.wellbeingintlstudiesrepository.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1007&context=sota_2005) [Fisheries Interactions with Marine Mammals - Marine Mammal Commission](https://www.mmc.gov/priority-topics/fisheries-interactions-with-marine-mammals/#:~:text=Commercial%20fishing%20operations%20are%20the,marine%20mammals%20and%20their%20environment). [https://awionline.org/sites/default/files/publication/digital\_download/Store-ML-MarineMammalsBrochure.pdf](https://awionline.org/sites/default/files/publication/digital_download/Store-ML-MarineMammalsBrochure.pdf) [Killing Sea Lions to Save Salmon Makes No Sense!](https://www.idausa.org/campaign/cetacean-advocacy/latest-news/sea-lions-killed-natural-habitats/#:~:text=U.S.%20authorities%20have%20passed%20a,and%20steelhead%20trout%20from%20extinction). _U.S. authorities have passed a new regulation to allow the slaughter of over 700 sea lions in the Columbia River, in a misguided attempt to protect salmon and steelhead trout from extinction._ > **[Sea Lions Keep Getting Shot by Fishermen](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/protected-sea-lions-shot-along-california-coast)** > > Despite legal protections for sea lions, fishermen resort to lethal force to keep them from stealing their catch. # California Sea Lions Keep Getting Shot by Fishermen _Despite legal protections for sea lions, fishermen resort to lethal force to keep them from stealing their catch._ ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/85 "2024-05-22T22:13:59Z")
So, just to check, if I read those cites I am definitely going to see direct evidence of fisherman killing orcas “because they ate all the fish”, right? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/86 "2024-05-22T22:30:58Z")
No, you will see fishermen killing marine mammals as they think they eat too many fish. Fishermen have been complaining about marine mammals 'eating all the fish" for a long time, and killing or attacking the marine mammals to stop them. I dont know if Spain cares about that. And I do know Spain has been warned about doing it- > **[ommission takes legal action against France, Spain and Sweden to protect...](https://www.clientearth.org/latest/press-office/press-releases/commission-takes-legal-action-against-france-spain-and-sweden-to-protect-marine-mammals/)** > > View the press release # Commission takes legal action against France, Spain and Sweden to protect marine mammals _The European Commission has[demanded](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/inf_20_1212) today that France, Spain and Sweden take immediate action to prevent the needless deaths of dolphins and porpoises killed every year as bycatch in fishing nets._ _The announcement follows a major intervention last year by a group of NGOs asking the European Commission to take legal action against 15 EU governments for failing in their legal duty to protect vulnerable marine mammals._ Now if you think it is simply impossible that any Spanish fisherman etc has accidentally (as by catch) or on purpose- killed orcas- just say so. I mean, I have shown that scientists consider an attack on orcas as one of two possible causes. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/87 "2024-05-23T00:01:16Z")
I agree in principal that ignorant fishermen almost certainly kill predator species that prey on their intended catch. But bycatch, the subject of your cites, is a completely different issue. Namely that net fishing doesn’t care what species are caught in its nets; if you’re swimming at the right depth, you’re scooped up, period. And the fishermen don’t bother to rescue the species they’re not trying to harvest; they simply toss them over the side. Which in the case of air breathers held underwater in the nets until they’ve mostly or fully drowned, amounts to purposely by accident killing lots of predator species. Which _probably_ makes them happy. Although not so much the fisheries authorities. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/88 "2024-05-23T02:08:29Z")
How do fisherman kill orcas? Do they have 20 mm cannons on fishing boats? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/89 "2024-05-23T03:31:48Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How do fisherman kill orcas? Do they have 20 mm cannons on fishing boats? Drown them in nets- sorta kinda by accident- or shoot them with a 8MM bolt action rifle or 12ga shotgun. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Which in the case of air breathers held underwater in the nets until they’ve mostly or fully drowned, amounts to purposely by accident killing lots of predator species. Which _probably_ makes them happy. Although not so much the fisheries authorities. Yes, that is the way most are killed. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > But bycatch, the subject of your cites, is a completely different issue. Do see my third cite - # California Sea Lions Keep Getting Shot by Fishermen _Despite legal protections for sea lions, fishermen resort to lethal force to keep them from stealing their catch._ When I was a marine biology grad student, I went out on "party boats\_"no, there was no party, but anyone could buy a ticket and go- they held- 20-50 fishermen. I got on free due to a letter from the University- but only if the boat wasnt full anyway. I had to pay extra for a bunk. Twice I saw dudes shooting sea lions- one it was a deckhand with a rifle, and another time it was a dude who whipped out a snub nosed pistol, pumping three shots into the poor guy. I was told that the deal was I wouldnt report anything …err…umm.._fishy_- to the F&G. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/90 "2024-05-23T15:21:41Z")
Last time I checked, sea lions are not orcas. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/91 "2024-05-23T16:21:09Z")
True. But if the general claim is “Some fishermen in some places ignorantly kill some predator species”, the cite supports that claim. Add that to the utterly unremarkable claim that people are equally stupid, short-sighted, and selfish worldwide. Then add the unremarkable claim that orcas eat fish that some humans want to catch, and we arrive at something close to QED. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/92 "2024-05-24T08:08:42Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > True. But if the general claim is “Some fishermen in some places ignorantly kill some predator species”, the cite supports that claim. > > Add that to the utterly unremarkable claim that people are equally stupid, short-sighted, and selfish worldwide. > > Then add the unremarkable claim that orcas eat fish that some humans want to catch, and we arrive at something close to QED That would be valid if the orca attacks were distributed globally. But they’re happening in a very specific part of the world. So the claim “some fishermen in some places” isn’t relevant. We’d need to show that this was happening in the seas off Gibralter. Conversely, googling this I saw a report that half a dozen orcas had been drowned off Alaska by getting tangled in nets last September. Which is sad, but there aren’t reports of orca attacks on boats in that part of the world, which means we can’t be at all certain that bycatch drownings cause orcas to attack boats. In fact, I even saw another report saying that in Indonesia they hunt orcas for meat - a direct attack which apparently hasn’t led to orca retaliation. So the causal chain: fishermen accidentally or deliberately kill orcas → orcas link these deaths to boats → orcas attack boats has some pretty shoogly links. ETA - IIRC the original speculation about revenge as motive had to do with an orca being accidentally struck by a yacht, nothing to do with the fishing fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/93 "2024-05-24T09:05:57Z")
The Straits of Gibraltar is one of those places where refugees and asylum-seekers try to cross from Africa into Europe, often in poorly-provisioned, overloaded, inadequate inflatable craft. The people on board these boats are poorly documented and if they go missing at sea, there is not likely to be anyone who will report their absence or instigate an official search. Have the orcas been eating people on these small boats, and learned that boats in those waters, contain edible people? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/94 "2024-05-24T10:23:36Z")
Jesus, that’s a horrifying thought. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/95 "2024-05-24T10:48:18Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > So the causal chain: fishermen accidentally or deliberately kill orcas → orcas link these deaths to boats → orcas attack boats has some pretty shoogly links. Agreed. It remains superficially plausible but not definititively proven. More “It stands to reason” (a common excuse for shoddy thought) than QED. As the better articles (and you) say. > [@Stanislaus](#): > > Jesus, that’s a horrifying thought. Sorta the aquatic version of this [![](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/ee/31/c0ee31db8533cbc2d03b001101b16024.jpg) ](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/ee/31/c0ee31db8533cbc2d03b001101b16024.jpg) and this [![](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/15/bf/15/15bf158cb030fd02441b5e9c75ad155b.jpg) ](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/15/bf/15/15bf158cb030fd02441b5e9c75ad155b.jpg) Taking the suggestion seriously, it too seems plausible to me. Refugee flows are not evenly geographically distributed either. But … IIRC there were also orcas attacking boats off South Africa. If so, that’s not an obvious area for feeding on refugees. Although I may be misremembering and conflating Great White shark attacks with orca attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Dogginit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogginit/32/16920_2.png) [@Dogginit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogginit)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/96 "2024-05-24T13:48:40Z")
USA Today has published an article from a multi-national group of orca experts that has a plausible answer. It appears to be juvenile orcas involved in playtime. [Why orcas are attacking boats](https://www.yahoo.com/news/killer-whales-keep-attacking-sinking-090349442.html) ---
**Author:** ![gregorio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@gregorio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gregorio)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/97 "2024-05-24T14:14:49Z")
So not just assholes. Teenage assholes. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/98 "2024-05-24T20:31:34Z")
Orca equivalent of tipping over Porta-Potties. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/99 "2024-05-24T21:02:37Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Agreed. It remains superficially plausible but not definititively proven. More “It stands to reason” (a common excuse for shoddy thought) than QED. As the better articles (and you) say. Right. It works as a hypothesis. And sure the marine biologists do consider revenge as one of the two possibilities. Mind you- having boats hit and hurt Orcas is also a good hypothesis for the revenge scenario. > [@Dogginit](#): > > It appears to be juvenile orcas involved in playtime. > > [Why orcas are attacking boats](https://www.yahoo.com/news/killer-whales-keep-attacking-sinking-090349442.html) That is certainly plausible there also. And it also says that revenge is unlikely. We still dont know however. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/100 "2024-05-24T22:34:29Z")
In conclusion, orcas are a land of contrasts. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611/101 "2024-05-25T06:38:09Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Great White shark attacks You may be conflating orca attacks _on_ sharks in South Africa with orcas attacking boats. Because that is a whole thing. > **[A lone orca killed a great white in less than two minutes. Scientists say it...](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/01/africa/orca-kills-great-white-shark-south-africa-scn/index.html)** > > Scientists witnessed a male orca known as Starboard single-handedly kill a juvenile great white shark within minutes last year. They say this hunting behavior could be a sign of a wider shift in the marine ecosystem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-year-has-reportedly-seen-a-spate-of-attacks-by-orcas-killer-whales-against-boats-in-the-strait-of-gibraltar/920611.md?page=6)