# Thomas Covenant - asshole? (spoilers, probably) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 4, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-covenant-asshole-spoilers-probably/320086 "2005-09-04T20:07:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-covenant-asshole-spoilers-probably/320086/21 "2005-10-10T14:49:49Z")
I think what appealed to me about the series was that it’s the fantasy land stereotype, with all the inhabitants brimming with honor, steadfastness and glory, like a continually shiny Camelot setting, and Thomas Covenant comes along and drops a turd in the punchbowl. Morals were such black and white terms to them, till Covenant came along and slapped them in the face with the reality that misery and blight can exist through no fault of evil, and sometimes there is not enough good in the world to help. The fantasy stereotypes had to come out of their shelters, without realizing such shelters had existed. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-covenant-asshole-spoilers-probably/320086/22 "2005-10-10T15:20:15Z")
> [@TellMeI'mNotCrazy](#): > > However, I never have the confidence to recommend the series to others. It’s really vastly different from what people are used to, and there are things about Donaldson’s writing style that really are love or hate, I think. His fondness for obscure words, for instance, and a protagonist that is almost impossible to sympathize with. Thinking about it now, I don’t think I’d have made it through the first books if it wasn’t for the way he desribed the Land. There was so much beauty in it, and such amazing things that I desperately wished could be real, I couldn’t help but keep reading to find out what happened to it. I love these books to distraction, but they’re incredibly polarizing - people either like them a lot or can’t stand them. (The Second Chronicles weren’t anywhere near as good - they had their moments, mostly in the first book, but every time I read them I stall out somewhere in the second book and have to keep pushing to make it through. And also the first book there is incredibly traumatic.) But, wherever else would you have learned to use “roynish” in a sentance? Eh? ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-covenant-asshole-spoilers-probably/320086/23 "2005-10-10T16:02:29Z")
> [@](#): > > The fantasy stereotypes had to come out of their shelters, without realizing such shelters had existed. perfect summary for why I loved this books, and have re-read them many times. You know it wasn’t just that TC thought he was dreaming. He had to make himself believe he was dreaming. His life depened on the fact that there was no cure for leprosy, period. If somewhere inside him he thought there was a cure, it would have driven him mad, and led to his suicide. That was the point of him being an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-covenant-asshole-spoilers-probably/320086/24 "2005-10-10T16:13:56Z")
You think Thomas Covenant is hard to sympathize with? Try Angus Thermopyle. _Chronicles_ was just a run-up for the even more astonishingly foul space pirate from his _Gap_ series. It’s Donaldson’s basic MO: he creates the most loathsome, unlikable character possible, then dares you to sympathize with him. Usually works, too. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-covenant-asshole-spoilers-probably/320086/25 "2005-10-10T17:41:33Z")
Protagonist-as-rapist is seen elsewhere, as well. **Gene Wolfe’s** character **Severian** more or less admits to having raped **Jolenta** in one of the volumes of **The Book of the New Sun.** I don’t have access to my copies of his work at the moment, but if memory serves there are other examples of his (anti)heroes forcing themselves on female characters. Wolfe, though, is notorious for his use of unreliable narrators so it can require some decoding to realize that that is what actually happened. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-covenant-asshole-spoilers-probably/320086/26 "2005-10-10T17:58:35Z")
if you decide to read this series after all the spoilers posted in here keep one thing in mind. the first part of the first book is so mindnumbingly boring and slow you will think its not worth reading…at least thats the response I had and several others I know had to it, but all of us agreed it was worth the continued read in the end. ---
**Author:** ![mkl12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@mkl12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkl12)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-covenant-asshole-spoilers-probably/320086/27 "2005-10-10T20:09:22Z")
If you ever get bored by the book, you should watch [Fantasy Bedtime Hour](http://www.fantasybedtimehour.com/). Two not very bright girls lie in bed and read and discuss Lord Foul’s Bane. They invite “experts” into their bed and show reenacted scenes based on their misunderstandings. Very funny. You can watch all episodes on their website. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-covenant-asshole-spoilers-probably/320086/28 "2005-10-10T21:14:37Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > if you decide to read this series after all the spoilers posted in here keep one thing in mind. > > the first part of the first book is so mindnumbingly boring and slow you will think its not worth reading…at least thats the response I had and several others I know had to it, but all of us agreed it was worth the continued read in the end. I am reading it, and… well, this far it’s a disappointment. I’ll finish it but if it doesn’t get a lot better I won’t continue reading the series. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-covenant-asshole-spoilers-probably/320086/29 "2005-10-10T21:34:21Z")
Haven’t read the new series yet (I saw book on on the shelf but I have a few books in the que to finish off first before I pick it up). I also didn’t like the second series as much though I still enjoyed it. THe first was pretty good…put me in the ‘liked it’ group. As for the OP, certainly TC was an asshole. He was supposed to be. Part of his asshole-ishness (is that even a word? 😉 ) was a defense mechanism. He simply COULD NOT accept the world because his own survival in our world depended on his not accepting it. They go over that point in the beginning when he has that stuff completely beaten out of him as he’s learning to deal with his life as a lepar. If he gives in, even a little, he’ll be condemming himself to a slow and grisley death…one he’s seen first hand in other folks with his disease. So, Donaldson has essentially put TC in a no win situation and then forced him to finally accept The Land as real, despite what that will ultimately cost him…and then in a further twist of the knife sent him back to THIS world to have to try and deal with it all. The series was deep…and when I originally read it I loved it. 🙂 -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-covenant-asshole-spoilers-probably/320086.md?page=1)