# Thomas Sowell goes to the movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 26, 2012, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695 "2012-08-26T06:12:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/21 "2012-08-26T20:04:19Z")
Would that we could. So much darkness and horror crammed into a mere eight years. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/22 "2012-08-26T20:08:11Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Oh, is this the game we’re going to play? Because if so, there’s a name I’d like to throw out; “Bush”. Or did you forget about his presidency? I’m not sure what “game” we’re playing. I was making a semi-sarcastic remark about how (IMO) calling Thomas Sowell an extremist might be pretty reasonable. I’m not making any point about Bush. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/23 "2012-08-26T20:11:50Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Oh, is this the game we’re going to play? Because if so, there’s a name I’d like to throw out; “Bush”. Or did you forget about his presidency? I think I get it- you’re trying to say “but Democrats said bad things about Bush too, so it can’t be ‘extreme’” (or something like that). As if that’s relevant to talking about Thomas Sowell. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/24 "2012-08-26T20:17:53Z")
I’m not normally a fan of Piers Morgan, but I loved the interview he did with D’Souza a couple of weeks back. At one point Morgan asked him just what Obama had done to erode the special relationship between Britain and America. When D’Souza mentioned Obama removing Churchill’s bust from the Oval Office, Morgan basically told him “Are you kidding me?” ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/25 "2012-08-26T21:14:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think I get it- you’re trying to say “but Democrats said bad things about Bush too, so it can’t be ‘extreme’” (or something like that). As if that’s relevant to talking about Thomas Sowell. Did you forget what you typed out? You didn’t just say “Sowell”. You said, and I quote, “In the modern Republican Party…”. And if you’re going to play this game, then it’s only fair to point out that Republicans are just engaging in the same kind of rhetoric that was aimed at Bush. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/26 "2012-08-26T21:30:41Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Did you forget what you typed out? You didn’t just say “Sowell”. You said, and I quote, “In the modern Republican Party…”. And if you’re going to play this game, then it’s only fair to point out that Republicans are just engaging in the same kind of rhetoric that was aimed at Bush. Only in the sense that AIDS is the same kind of thing as gonorrhea. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/27 "2012-08-26T21:47:22Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Did you forget what you typed out? You didn’t just say “Sowell”. You said, and I quote, “In the modern Republican Party…”. And if you’re going to play this game, then it’s only fair to point out that Republicans are just engaging in the same kind of rhetoric that was aimed at Bush. Ok, I wasn’t being entirely serious. But you’re still playing the “two wrongs make a right” fallacy. And I think Sowell is an extremist, or he’s not a serious person. And it’s not ridiculous to extrapolate “dictatorship” from “military coup”. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/28 "2012-08-27T00:46:10Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Yeah, Dinesh D’Souza has been promoting his “Obama is a third world president” theory for some time now. Here is his [Forbes Magazine article](http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0927/politics-socialism-capitalism-private-enterprises-obama-business-problem.html) from 2010 that laid the groundwork. It then became a book and now apparently a movie. Interestingly, researching this theory always leads directly back to D’Souza, so while the movie may gain it some traction, it clearly hasn’t caught on with mainstream conservatives, probably because it’s so idiotic, and pretty openly racist. The really hilarious thing is that [it is Dinesh D’Souza who advocates craven surrender to a particularly noxious type of Third World values](http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/01/prominent-conservative-wants-alliance.html). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/29 "2012-08-27T04:25:31Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Now this is an outright lie. [Your accusation is a violation of the forum rules.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448632) \* Knock it off. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > [It’s interesting how you go from the above quote to your quote](http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/220788/dont-get-weak/thomas-sowell). You may be correct that your quote is the source of the opinion to which you are responding. On the other hand, since no source was provided, it would make more sense to ask for a source before deciding that the claim was a lie. On the other hand: > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Dear mods, > > Where art thou? Where should we be? Unless Mr. Sowell is posting on this board, I see no insults directed at another poster and no posts that would seem to indicate trolling. Making snide comments about the Moderators when there has not even been a rule broken is hardly going to get us to Moderate posts just because you don’t like them. [/Moderating] - _Marley has made it clear in several posts that, as Elections was spun off from Great Debates, Great Debates rules apply._ ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/30 "2012-08-27T05:53:17Z")
> [@AdanTheSomali](#): > > Thomas Sowell is an unrepentant uncle tom who works diligently to discredit the black race in the eyes of his masters. Is he an “unrepentant uncle tom” in the same way that Martin Luther King was a “house nigger”? I assume since you seem to care so much about “the black race” that Malcolm X classified Martin Luther King as a house nigger? Do you disagree with Malcolm X or do you think it was perfectly fair to classify Martin Luther King as a “house nigger”. Similarly, there are plenty of African Americans who view Obama as a “house nigger” or “house negro”. Do you think there’s nothing wrong with referring to Obama as a “house nigger”? If not, please explain why you think it’s okay to refer to people as “Uncle Toms” but not as “house niggers”. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/31 "2012-08-27T05:58:42Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Where should we be? Unless Mr. Sowell is posting on this board, I see no insults directed at another poster and no posts that would seem to indicate trolling. > .\* I was under the impression that the mods didn’t want people using racial slurs outside of the pit. If it’s okay to use racial slurs to refer to Thomas Sowell, is it okay to use racial and ethnic slurs regarding other public figures. For example would it be okay to refer to Barack Obama as America’s “house nigger” or to refer to Benjamin Netanyahu as a “Jewish dog”? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/32 "2012-08-27T06:29:53Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > If not, please explain why you think it’s okay to refer to people as “Uncle Toms” but not as “house niggers”. Because nigger has a value in the U.S. lexicon that is sufficient unto itself as a tabu word. Now that you have exhausted your annual quota for posting the word nigger, do not continue this train in this thread. Uncle Tom is clearly an insult, but it does not have the same emotional weight as nigger; it is not worse than any number of insults hurled at various politicians (such as comparing Obama to Hitler or referring to someone as a Stalin or a Lenin or a Quisling). Stick to the topic of this thread. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/33 "2012-08-27T06:33:14Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > If it’s okay to use racial slurs to refer to Thomas Sowell, is it okay to use racial and ethnic slurs regarding other public figures. > > For example would it be okay to refer to Barack Obama as America’s “house nigger” or to refer to Benjamin Netanyahu as a “Jewish dog”? Uncle Tom has a specific meaning that goes beyond mere racial epithets. If you had decided to make some point, here, (where it is not pertinent to the thread), you should not have tried to link it to phrases including “nigger” or “dog.” [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/34 "2012-08-27T06:47:04Z")
> [@AdanTheSomali](#): > > Thomas Sowell is an unrepentant uncle tom who works diligently to discredit the black race in the eyes of his masters. :rolleyes: I disagree with Thomas Sowell’s laissez-faire views personally but don’t be absurd. By this logic Black Muslims are Uncle Mohammeds in light of the extensive Muslim and Arab involvement in the slave trade in Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/35 "2012-08-27T06:49:09Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Because nigger has a value in the U.S. lexicon that is sufficient unto itself as a tabu word. > > Now that you have exhausted your annual quota for posting the word nigger, do not continue this train in this thread. Uncle Tom is clearly an insult, but it does not have the same emotional weight as nigger; it is not worse than any number of insults hurled at various politicians (such as comparing Obama to Hitler or referring to someone as a Stalin or a Lenin or a Quisling). > > Stick to the topic of this thread. > > [/Moderating] I didn’t make reference to “niggers” but to “house niggers” which is a very different term and was used by many prominent African-American leaders, such as Malcolm X and Louis Farrakhan. The only real difference that I see between the term “Uncle Tom” and “house nigger” is that white people are far more comfortable using the term “Uncle Tom” then using the term “house nigger” though plenty of African-Americans have no issues with the use of the term “house nigger” or “house negro”. Moreover, to most African-Americans, as far as I can tell, the terms “Uncle Tom” and “house nigger” are interchangeable so if it’s okay to refer to public figures as “Uncle Toms” shouldn’t it be okay to refer to them as “house niggers”. Again, note that making reference to someone as a “house nigger” is not the same as calling them a “nigger” as Malcolm X, Louis Farrakhan and countless others will testify. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/36 "2012-08-27T06:52:26Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Uncle Tom has a specific meaning that goes beyond mere racial epithets. If you had decided to make some point, here, (where it is not pertinent to the thread), you should not have tried to link it to phrases including “nigger” or “dog.” > > [/Moderating] Doesn’t the term “house nigger” make the same point and have the same meaning as “Uncle Tom”? For example, here is a quote from Malcolm X, the second most popular African-American leader of the 20th Century. > [@](#): > > "There was two kind of slaves. There was the house negro and the field negro. The house negro, they lived in the house, with master. They > dressed pretty good. They ate good, cause they ate his food, what he left. > They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near their > master, and they loved their master, more than their master loved > himself. They would give their life to save their masters house quicker > than their master would. The house negro, if the master said “we got a > good house here” the house negro say “yeah, we got a good house here”. > Whenever the master would said we, he’d say we. That’s how you can > tell a house negro. If the master’s house caught on fire, the house negro > would fight harder to put the blaze out than the master would. If the > master got sick, the house negro would say “What’s the matter, boss, we > sick?” We sick! He identified himself with his master, more than the > master identified with himself. And if you came to the house negro and > said “Let’s run away, Let’s escape, Let’s separate” the house negro would > look at you and say “Man, you crazy. What you mean separate? Where > is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than > this? Where can I eat better food than this?” There was that house > negro. In those days, he was called a **house nigger**. And that’s what we > call him today, because we still got some \*\*house niggers \*\*runnin around > here. This modern house negro loves his master. He wants to live near > him. He’ll pay three times as much as the house is worth just to live near > his master, and then brag about “I’m the only negro out here. I’m the > only one on my job. I’m the only one in this school.” "You’re nothing but > a house negro. And if someone come to you right now and say “Let’s > separate.”, you say the same thing that the house negro said on the > plantation. "What you mean separate? From America? This good white > land? Where you gonna get a better job than you get here? I mean, this > is what you say! “I di-I ain’t left nothing in Africa” That’s what you say. > “Why, you left your mind in Africa”. On that same plantation, there was > the field negro. The field negro, those were the masses. There was > always more negros in the field as there were negros in the house. There > negro in the field caught hell. He ate leftovers. In the house, they ate > high up on the hog. The negro in the field didn’t get nothing but what > was left in the insides of the hog. They call them chit’lins nowaday. In > those days, they called them what they were, guts! That’s what you > were, a guteater. And some of you are still guteaters. The field negro > was beaten, from morning til night. He lived in a shack, in a hut. He > Related News > Malcolm X: Make It Plain / Full Documentary > Malcolm X’s daughters unhappy with new book > Analytical Review of Malcolm X Movie > wore cast-off clothes. He hated his master. I say, he hated his master. He was intelligent. That house negro loved his master. But that field negro, remember, they were in the majority, and they hated their master. When the house caught on fire, he didn’t try to put it out, that > field negro prayed for a wind. For a breeze. When the master got sick, the field negro prayed that he died. If someone come to the field negro and said “Let’s separate, let’s run.” He didn’t say “Where we going?” he > said “Any place is better than here”. We got field negros in America > today. I’m a field negro. The masses are the field negros. When they see > this mans house on fire, we don’t hear these little negros talkin bout > “Our Government is in trouble. They say thee Government is in trouble.” > Imagine a negro, “Our Government”. I even heard one say “Our > astronauts.” They won’t even let him near the plant, and “Our > astronauts”. “Our neighbors” That’s a negro that’s out of his mind. That’s > a negro that’s out of his mind! Just cause the slave master in that day, > used Tom, to keep the field negroes in check. The same ol slavemaster > today has negros who are nothing but modern Uncle Toms. 20th > century Uncle Toms to keep you and me in check. Keep us under > control. Keep us passive and peaceful. And nonviolent. You’ll notice that Malcolm X uses the terms “Uncle Tom”, “House Negro” and “House Nigger” interchangeably. If you feel that it’s okay to refer to public figures as “Uncle Toms” then shouldn’t you also feel that it’s okay to refer to them as “house niggers”(which means the same thing) unless you wish to give a reason why you should be seen as a better proponent of what terms are and aren’t appropriate to use regarding African-Americans than Malcolm X, the most popular African-American leader of the 20th Century except for Martin Luther King. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/37 "2012-08-27T06:53:47Z")
Stop the hijack. We disagree and this is not the thread to discuss it. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/38 "2012-08-27T07:03:51Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Stop the hijack. > > We disagree and this is not the thread to discuss it. > > [/Moderating] I wasn’t trying to hijack the thread, but fair enough and respectfully you don’t just disagree with me, but apparently with countless African-Americans and African-American leaders who feel that “house nigger” and “uncle Tom” are interchangeable. Moreover, with all due respect, I think it’s very presumptuous for white people to say they no better than than Malcolm X as to what are and aren’t acceptable insults to use against black people. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/39 "2012-08-27T07:08:59Z")
If you want to be Warned for continuing a hijack after being told to stop it three times, try once more. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695/40 "2012-08-27T12:13:04Z")
So what’s the basis for the book and movie? Conjecture? No inside information at all? Newt Gingrich played the Kenyan anti-colonial card for all it was worth, which turned out not to be very much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thomas-sowell-goes-to-the-movies/632695.md?page=3)