# Thor (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 4, 2011, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672 "2011-05-04T08:51:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/101 "2011-05-16T17:40:58Z")
IIRC, in one of the Marvel/DC crossover events, Wonder Woman was able to lift Mjolnir. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/102 "2011-05-16T18:15:58Z")
I really enjoyed the movie. I must say tht when Thor placed Mjolnir on Loki’s chest at the end to hold him down–that was unexpected and brilliant. I don’t think that trick has ever been used before. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/103 "2011-05-16T18:49:43Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > Re: The Infinity Gauntlet > > I think they’re just producing some Marvel bric-a-brac to include in the background of scenes as Easter eggs for fans. > [@WotNot](#): > > I think that’s about it. The Infinity Gauntlet was one of the artefacts in that vault in Asgard, along with the Cask of Ancient Winters – the Warlock’s Eye was in there too. > > I think they had about a second’s screen-time each. If you want a better look, there’s a [book, _The Art of Thor,_](http://www.amazon.com/Thor-Art-Movie-Marvel-Comics/dp/0785151303/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305560074&sr=1-1) for a mere $31.31 at [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com). (Or you can see them both [here)](http://ec5.images-amazon.com/images/I/71EQCuzPvzL.jpg) Aw man… Thanks for the info, but I’m still disappointed that I’ll have a Thanos free summer next year ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/104 "2011-05-16T20:56:04Z")
The line,“Lady Sif and The Warriors Three” had me stifling an urge to yell, “Band Name!” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/105 "2011-05-16T21:10:18Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > \*Thor \*seems to take place in a universe that’s a little more brightly-colored and up-tempo than ours, and I adored the energy of the movie. This failed for the tiny Southwestern town, though. Many parts of a small Southwestern town seemed very accurate (at least from my limited experience of them,) but it appeared that they snuck in several false, generic, brighter Hollywood buildings in several places where whatever was there naturally wasn’t appropriate for some reason (copyright/privacy issues? overly blighted/too desolate?) ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/106 "2011-05-16T21:51:28Z")
Loki’s Motivations Question: There has been some discussion of Loki having daddy issues related to his adoption, needing to prove himself so as not to be discounted as an outsider due to his frost-giant heritage. When _**within the narrative of the reality of THIS story of the film (various comic book continuities may vary)**_ does Loki become aware of his frost-giant heritage? During the battle of Thor’s invasion of the snow globe, one of the warriors three is harmed (burned?) when a frost-giant touches his arm (bare skin). He calls out a warning to his comrades “Don’t let them touch you!” He then winks at the audience and says “See, folks, that means that you’re going to see someone else get touched by a frost-giant but the result will not be what you expect!” Moments later, we see Loki get touched by a frost-giant. Instead of being burned/harmed, his skin just turns frosty. He reacts with surprise. He then confronts Odin saying, “Father, the audience and I need to know the truth about my parentage!” When Odin tells him of his adoption- and of his frost-giant origins- it seems this is a revelation to him. The way it’s presented in the film, it seems: Loki’s First _suspicion_ of his background- When he’s touched by the frost-giant in battle Loki’s First true _knowledge_ of his background- When Odin tells him the adoption story Anyway, he snuck the frost-giants in on coronation day . . . . . . and he set up Thor for banishment (egging Thor on about invading the snow globe/sending word of the invasion to Odin) . . . . . . _before the battle when his suspicions about himself first arise_. So, however his daddy-issues/adoption-issues may drive him later on, clearly his put his grand scheme into motion with other initial motivations. Thoughts? P.S. I enjoyed the movie, but I didn’t _LOVE_ it. However, I will want to re-watch it before the Captain America movie comes out. During the week leading up to _Thor_ I rewatched _Iron Man_, _Iron Man 2_, and _The Incredible Hulk_ (in order of continuity, not order of release). I would like to do the same before _Captain America_ but don’t know if I want to pay full price for _Thor_ again. What do Dopers think the chances are that _Thor_ will be in discount theaters by the time _Captain America_ comes out??? ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/107 "2011-05-16T22:14:57Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > So, however his daddy-issues/adoption-issues may drive him later on, clearly his put his grand scheme into motion with other initial motivations. > > Thoughts? Not a problem in-universe or out, to me. Loki practically admits his motivations when he’s talking to Laufey, trying to get the Jotuns to invade and kill Odin. Laufey says something like “oh, it was YOU who let us in” and Loki is all “hell yes! Anything to piss off Daddy and screw over big brother’s big day - how dare he get all the attention! Also, I think he’s an idiot, and was hoping that it would prevent him from becoming king for a while longer.” (serious paraphrasing here, but that was pretty much the conversation.) Looking at it another way, Loki doesn’t LOOK or ACT anything like Thor, or Odin, or really any of the Asgardians. There’s a little of the “ok, I’ve suspected something was off for a while, but never thought it was THIS bad” type feel to that whole confrontation with Odin in the hall with the Blue McGuffin Brick. Also, Loki’s an asshole, if you missed it. He’s totally ok with killing a few random guardsmen just for the sake of what to him is a giant practical joke, which, incidentally, furthers his bigger asshole plan to get Thor sidelined so he can rule instead, which is what he always wanted/wants. So, since his original plan all along was to do something that would end up with Thor getting banished so he could take over the kingship, you get the sense that he realizes fairly quickly how being Jotun himself will, instead of screwing him over, actually will make it \*easier \*to manufacture a ‘crisis’ that he alone can save everyone from, because now Laufey is more likely to believe him and actually attack Odin while Thor’s safely off being banished. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/108 "2011-05-16T22:33:31Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Loki’s Motivations Question: > > Anyway, he snuck the frost-giants in on coronation day . . . > . . . and he set up Thor for banishment (egging Thor on about invading the snow globe/sending word of the invasion to Odin) . . . > . . . _before the battle when his suspicions about himself first arise_. > > So, however his daddy-issues/adoption-issues may drive him later on, clearly his put his grand scheme into motion with other initial motivations. > > Thoughts? Ruining the coronation is brought up in the movie and Loki acknowledges it as just being “a bit of mischief.” I don’t think the banishment was part of Loki’s plan, I think insuring that Thor wasn’t made King was. I think Loki pre-revelation of his origin just wanted Odin to CHOOSE him (since his father said they were both born to be kings- and it’s true. Loki was just born to be king of the Frost Giants not Asgard). His seeming betrayal of Asgard by allowing Laufrey in to kill Odin is actually a double cross–it’s his way of getting revenge on his true father and looking “good” in front of his adopted father (and mother). I think Loki realizes that his reign will always be suspect because Thor is out there and Thor is LOVED by everyone where Loki is not. He even goes to Earth to talk to Thor to help ensure that he won’t be an issue later. It’s only when the Warriors 3 and Sif clearly are becoming a liability that he decides to remove them and Thor from the board. …does that make sense? I might be talking a little out of my ass on this but I think I have the events correct. I think Loki trying to lift Mjolnir while on Earth is actually a big moment for the character. He definitely changes after that. > [@bienville](#): > > What do Dopers think the chances are that _Thor_ will be in discount theaters by the time _Captain America_ comes out??? Cap isn’t until July so chances are good on that front. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/109 "2011-05-16T22:42:48Z")
> [@Bakhesh](#): > > Not sure about Odins spear, but I would have thought that Loki would have been able to lift Mjolnir off himself at the end. Odin never had a problem lifting Mjolnir (as seen when he stripped Thor of his powers), and seeing as Loki was filling in to Odin as ruler of asgard at the time, the same rule should have applied to him. Odin’s power never passed to Loki. In the comics at least, Odin retains his massive powers (the “Odin Force”) unless he either dies or gives it away (he got it in the first place when his two brothers died and their power automatically transferred to him). That isn’t what happened in the movie, so at most Loki only got the advantage of wielding Odin’s spear. Odin is the one who put the “worthiness” charm on Mjolnir to begin with, and presumably whomever the Odin Force resided in could remove it. In Avengers/JLA, the charm was either relaxed or lifted entirely so that Superman (who normally cannot lift the hammer) could use Mjolnir. Since Steve Rogers can lift the hammer in the comics, I wonder if he’ll do it in the Avengers movie. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/110 "2011-05-16T22:47:39Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Anyway, he snuck the frost-giants in on coronation day . . . > . . . and he set up Thor for banishment (egging Thor on about invading the snow globe/sending word of the invasion to Odin) . . . > . . . _before the battle when his suspicions about himself first arise_. I didn’t get the impression that Loki was trying to maneuver Thor into invading the Frost Giant realm. He seemed to be genuinely surprised that Thor would do something that stupid, and honestly did not want him to go - if for no other reason than Loki would lose face if he refused to go with them, and Loki was smart enough to know that there was a good chance that not everyone would come back from the raid alive. I don’t think Loki set his grand scheme into motion until Odin collapsed after exiling Thor - that’s when he decided to step in and try to usurp the throne. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/111 "2011-05-16T22:51:04Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I didn’t get the impression that Loki was trying to maneuver Thor into invading the Frost Giant realm. I did. He said something like “Well, father has forbidden _this_ so you couldn’t _possibly_ do it…” knowing that, of course, Thor would be happy to take that suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/112 "2011-05-16T22:56:06Z")
Loki’s feelings of inadequacy as a son and as an Æsir certainly intensified after he learned he was Jötun, but they were there from the start, from being overshadowed by his brother. But then, his schemes also intensified after that point, so it all fits together. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/113 "2011-05-16T23:09:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Push You Down > I really enjoyed the movie. > > I must say tht when Thor placed Mjolnir on Loki’s chest at the end to hold him down–that was unexpected and brilliant. I don’t think that trick has ever been used before. [spoiler]Walt Simonson used a trick like that during his run on Thor in the 1980’s. Loki had turned Thor into a giant frog just about the time the Asgardians were holding an Althing to select their next ruler. Hiemdall and the Warriors Three did not know where Thor was, so in order to win a postponement, they disguised another warrior to look like Thor and that included cobbling up a fake Mjollnir. Loki spied on Hemdall and realized this. He cast a spell on the fake hammer so it would return to him. At the reconvened Althing, Loki proposes himself for ruler, snatches the fake hammer and throws it. However, Thor as giant frog returns at that instant, snatches Loki up, takes him to a wasteland, and unleashes a giant can of whip-ass, forcing Loki to change him back into a human form. When the Asgardians arrive Loki rushes forward to accuse his brother of trickery, but Thor says something like: “Here, hold this. It might lend your words more credence.” He tosses Loki the real Mjollnir, Loki catches it by reflex, and goes to the ground. [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/114 "2011-05-17T09:15:30Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > Odin’s power never passed to Loki. In the comics at least, Odin retains his massive powers (the “Odin Force”) unless he either dies or gives it away (he got it in the first place when his two brothers died and their power automatically transferred to him). That isn’t what happened in the movie, so at most Loki only got the advantage of wielding Odin’s spear. What about when Asgard got lost in the Negative zone? Odin fell into his Odin sleep, so Heimdall filled in for him on the throne for a while. He was in possession of the Odinforce when he did, so it seems to automatically go with the throne. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/115 "2011-05-17T11:51:52Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > This failed for the tiny Southwestern town, though. Many parts of a small Southwestern town seemed very accurate (at least from my limited experience of them,) but it appeared that they snuck in several false, generic, brighter Hollywood buildings in several places where whatever was there naturally wasn’t appropriate for some reason (copyright/privacy issues? overly blighted/too desolate?) Noticed the blatant product placement of a 7-11 in the town, in the long shot showing Destroyer’s arrival. Totally out of place, and obviously NOT a 7-11: architecture’s wrong, no parking lot, etc… Just a sign on the corner, and a building with 7-11 painted trim. > [@shy\_guy](#): > > Odin is the one who put the “worthiness” charm on Mjolnir to begin with, and presumably whomever the Odin Force resided in could remove it. In Avengers/JLA, the charm was either relaxed or lifted entirely so that Superman (who normally cannot lift the hammer) could use Mjolnir. Since Steve Rogers can lift the hammer in the comics, I wonder if he’ll do it in the Avengers movie. Why wouldn’t Supes be able to lift Mjolnir? True, he and magic usually don’t get along that well, but if anyone in the DC universe would be _worthy_ of lifting Thor’s Hammer, it would be Superman. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/116 "2011-05-17T13:49:10Z")
> [@lawoot](#): > > Why wouldn’t Supes be able to lift Mjolnir? True, he and magic usually don’t get along that well, but if anyone in the DC universe would be _worthy_ of lifting Thor’s Hammer, it would be Superman. _Shrug_ You got me, but at the end of Avengers/JLA Supes tries to lift the hammer to give it back to Thor, and he can’t. Thor smiles and tells him that his being about to lift it was just a temporary thing because the stakes were so dire. Wonder Woman lifted it in Marvel vs. DC, though that doesn’t seem to be at all in continuity anymore. Good call on the Negative Zone thing, **Bakhesh**! Now I want to go research other times the Odin Force has passed onto others. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/117 "2011-05-17T13:52:25Z")
> [@lawoot](#): > > Why wouldn’t Supes be able to lift Mjolnir? True, he and magic usually don’t get along that well, but if anyone in the DC universe would be _worthy_ of lifting Thor’s Hammer, it would be Superman. It didn’t tell the story they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/118 "2011-05-17T14:16:42Z")
> [@lawoot](#): > > Why wouldn’t Supes be able to lift Mjolnir? True, he and magic usually don’t get along that well, but if anyone in the DC universe would be _worthy_ of lifting Thor’s Hammer, it would be Superman. There might be an implicit “willing to kill if necessary” in Odin’s conditions/definition of “worthy”. Norse gods were warriors, after all. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/119 "2011-05-17T14:24:27Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > There might be an implicit “willing to kill if necessary” in Odin’s conditions/definition of “worthy”. Norse gods were warriors, after all. That does explain Steve Rogers, who got his start stomping Nazis in the U.S. Army during WWII. I’m sure he didn’t just knock all of them out. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672/120 "2011-05-17T14:30:20Z")
Not sure if Odin approves of killing. When Thor ‘killed’ Loki\* , Odin banished him from Asgard and Midgard (no one knew where he was). Thor was fairly justified, in that Loki had goaded him by attempting to kill a child. This may only apply to Asgardians killing other Asgardians though (\* Loki’s plan hinged on getting Thor to kill him. In fact, Loki’s spirit took over Odin’s body) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thor-open-spoilers/580672.md?page=7)