# Those Flappers of the 20's **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 28, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-flappers-of-the-20s/210102 "2003-10-28T20:38:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-flappers-of-the-20s/210102/1 "2003-10-28T20:38:07Z")
What is the origin of “flapper,” referring to a convention-defying young woman of the '20s? From Brewer’s Dictionary of 20th-Century Phrase and Fable: “In the early years of the 20th century a term applied to a girl in her teens, now called a teenager, from her plaited pigtail tied at the end with a large bow. When stepping along the pigtail flapped her back. Subsequently her hair was ‘put up’ in a ‘bun’ or other hairstyle. By the 1920s the name was commonly applied to a young woman, or ‘bright young thing’.” But this website says something about the reason they flapped was because they were hiding liquor: [http://www.urbanstyle.com/localScene/vogueEvents/2002/timlongQA/default.htm](http://www.urbanstyle.com/localScene/vogueEvents/2002/timlongQA/default.htm) Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-flappers-of-the-20s/210102/2 "2003-10-28T22:15:25Z")
Way older. And British. > **[Flapper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flapper)** > > Flappers were a generation of young Western women in the 1920s who wore short skirts (knee height was considered short during that time period), bobbed their hair, listened to jazz, and flaunted their disdain for what was then considered acceptable behavior. Flappers were seen as brash for wearing excessive makeup, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes in public, driving automobiles, treating sex in a casual manner, and otherwise flouting social and sexual norms. As automobiles became available... > [@](#): > > Flappers had their origins in the Gibson girls of the 1890s. Named for the drawings of Charles Dana Gibson, these women maintained their femininity despite participating in traditionally male activities such as sports or higher education. World War I forced women to break even more gender barriers by entering the workforce to replace the large numbers of men fighting overseas. At war’s end, women were expected to return to their traditional roles as housewives and mothers. The men returned from a raucous life abroad where facing death each day had not left them eager to take on a traditional lifestyle, either. More importantly, vast numbers of men did not return from the war, leaving a significant gap between the numbers of single women and men. These factors prompted many post-war women to forget about tradition and to simply enjoy life. These women were dubbed “flappers” in Great Britain, based on a perceived similarity to young birds vainly trying to leave the nest. While many in the United States assumed at the time that the term “flapper” derived from a fashion of wearing galoshes unbuttoned so that they flapped as the wearer walks, the term was already doccumented as in use in the United Kingdom as early as 1912. And [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com) > [@](#): > > flap·per. > > 1. A broad flexible part, such as a flipper. > 2. A young woman, especially one in the 1920s who showed disdain for conventional dress and behavior. > > * * * > > [Sense 2, British Slang, very young female prostitute, flapper, possibly from flapper, fledgling partridge or duck (from flap), or from dialectal flap, loose or flighty girl.] > > Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition And see also [“Flappers” Origin Discussion/Nov 1997](http://www.h-net.msu.edu/~women/threads/disc-flapperorig.html) for other documented earlier uses. However, it is very possible that the American usage “rediscovered” the word and applied it given the then current flapping galoshes and dances. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-flappers-of-the-20s/210102/3 "2003-11-02T23:08:58Z")
That 1997 discussion of “flappers” would get their asses handed to them if they tried to push that stuff off on the SDMB. I’ve never seen more wild guesses and false etymologies in my life. If anyone can cite me a “flapping galoshes” in print before 1920, I’d love to see it. And the “flapping pigtail”…puleeze! ☹ > [@](#): > > At war’s end, women were expected to return to their traditional roles as housewives and mothers. The men returned from a raucous life abroad where facing death each day had not left them eager to take on a traditional lifestyle, either. More importantly, vast numbers of men did not return from the war, leaving a significant gap between the numbers of single women and men. These factors prompted many post-war women to forget about tradition and to simply enjoy life. These women were dubbed “flappers” in Great Britain, based on a perceived similarity to young birds vainly trying to leave the nest. I’d love to see the source of this bit of info. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-flappers-of-the-20s/210102/4 "2003-11-02T23:14:43Z")
What I should have said was, I’d love to see the original sources of info upon which the writer assumed all those “facts.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-flappers-of-the-20s/210102/5 "2003-11-03T04:59:49Z")
The replies toward the end correct some of the nonsense promulgated in the beginning, I thought. And they did provide some credible cites. Better than the ones in the OP, at the very least. Now that you’re done being indignant, what are your early cites? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-flappers-of-the-20s/210102/6 "2003-11-03T05:36:36Z")
**Exapno**. No doubt we are both right here. I do get indignant, don’t I. Brewer and his flapping pigtail in the OP got me going. There’s no evidence for that. As you so wisely criticized, the link in the OP said, among other rediculous things: > [@](#): > > Some people say the word “flapper” comes from the untied galoshes popular with flappers. Women could slide a flask in-between the foot and the boot. The untied sides of the galoshes would “flap” when walking. I just love how they couch their assertions: “Some people say…” And after they assert it, people just remember that they read it and it’s true. But of course it isn’t. No proof for it. > [@](#): > > The replies toward the end correct some of the nonsense promulgated in the beginning, I thought. And they did provide some credible cites. What would be an example of a credible, in print from the time, cite? I have problems even with my cites. Jon Lighter, the editor of the Random House Dictionary of Historical American Slang, lists a plethora of cites. And, in MY MIND, many of them which supposedly show that a flapper was a an independent, high-minded young lady, merely show that the term was still aimed toward very young girls and prostitutes through much of the 10’s and teens. Better to characterize it as there may have been a bi-level of understanding of the terms. By the 20’s, we tend to get the “flapper” sense that both you and I know as the independent, assertive, hedonistic young lady. But believe me, the transition from the very young teen girl of the 1900 era, to the sophisticated young lady of the 1920’s is rather open to interpretation of cites. I’ll be glad to send you cites from RHDAS, and other sources. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-flappers-of-the-20s/210102/7 "2003-11-03T19:04:54Z")
Just for my future information, you don’t consider Stuart Flexner’s _I Hear America Talking_ to be a legit source? And the quote from _Back to Home and Duty_ by Deirdre Beddoe looked solid, though it would be nice to know what that footnote referred to. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-flappers-of-the-20s/210102/8 "2003-11-06T03:27:31Z")
**Exapno**. I don’t have an opinion on Flexner. I’ll try to ask one or two people in the group whom I respect if they think his work is good. As for Ms. Beddoe–I went to the Akron U. library tonight because I couldn’t sleep thinking about that footnote. That (23) wasn’t a footnote. It was merely the page number of her book which had that cite contributed by the poster to the group discussion. The cite is worthless for our purposes. email me if I forget to get back to you about Flexner.