# Those impeachment articles are weak, dude **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 10, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647 "2019-12-10T14:36:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/81 "2019-12-11T06:33:29Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > 1.000. > > That is all. LOL, I knew I’d screw that up! Thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/82 "2019-12-11T06:48:51Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I hope you’re right, but I spent a few minutes scrolling through the comments on the local TV station’s coverage. Granted, that’s a self-selected sample, but people are absolutely coming unglued already. They really do not care what Trump has done, only that those damn liberal demonrats (yes, that term is used with distressing frequency) are attacking “our” President. > > When ya stab Caesar, ya better make it count. I think this is going to backfire, with lasting tragic results. Yes, but we have to remember the biggest problem Donald Trump is facing; himself. At some point in this impeachment process, Trump is going to have to appear live before the Senate and have to face some tough questioning. And there’s a better than even chance he’ll screw it up big time. He might commit perjury. He might start screaming. He might look stupid. There’s a good chance he’ll do all three. Trump could end up destroying his own Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/83 "2019-12-11T06:52:57Z")
Think the Pubbies will vote to acquit when he refuses to show up and take the stand? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/84 "2019-12-11T06:58:59Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I see a serious problem with Article I > The Senate takes their role of jury vary seriously and will acquit based on specific words. With Clinton there was the issue over the use of the word “is” and with Johnson many Senators wanted to vote for acquittal since the “term” covered by the Tenure of Office Act ended when Lincoln died. So I see a valid reason to vote for acquittal by basing the article on the 2020 election and characterizing Joe Biden as a “political opponent”. Remember he hasn’t won the primary yet so is not Trump’s opponent and is not (yet?) a candidate in the Presidential election. > > It may be a pedantic reading of the situation but the Senate is 2 out of 2 in splitting hairs like that. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So your logic is that a person should be convicted of crimes they didn’t commit because they committed crimes they did not get charged with? No, that’s not the issue. You’re not saying Trump didn’t commit the crime. You’re saying he did commit the crime but that the crime wasn’t described properly in the charges. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/85 "2019-12-11T07:41:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > At some point in this impeachment process, Trump is going to have to appear live before the Senate and have to face some tough questioning. Cite, please. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/86 "2019-12-11T11:42:57Z")
How many misdemeanors is Trump going to be charged with? He has revealed military and intelligence secrets, deserted the Kurds, condoned assassination, insulted allies, broken law in the case of Stormy Daniels, fired officials charged with investigating his crimes, misused power for personal enrichment, and much more. The proceedings are not like criminal prosecutions where some evidence is disallowed and a “beyond reasonable doubt” standard applies; indeed charged malfeasances need not even violate criminal code. Wouldn’t it be best if the impeachment charged him with a large and varied collection of his ugliest misdemeanors? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/87 "2019-12-11T11:58:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > At some point in this impeachment process, Trump is going to have to appear live before the Senate and have to face some tough questioning. And there’s a better than even chance he’ll screw it up big time. He might commit perjury. He might start screaming. He might look stupid. There’s a good chance he’ll do all three. Trump could end up destroying his own Presidency. This isn’t going to happen. There are 3 facts that Republicans are going to hide from us at all costs: 1. Trump isn’t a wealthy, self-made man. He runs spectacular con games using inherited and laundered money. 2. Trump isn’t an intelligent, shrewd strategist. He’s a bumbling incoherent ignoramus who needs to be handled by others. 3. Trump is a criminal, and numerous Republicans are inextricably entangled in his crimes. Republicans may hate Trump, but they understand that their mythic house of cards comes tumbling down when these truths are exposed. There’s no way they compel Trump to testify, and they will break laws to keep Trump’s finances hidden. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/88 "2019-12-11T13:01:24Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > This isn’t going to happen. There are 3 facts that Republicans are going to hide from us at all costs: > > 1. Trump isn’t a wealthy, self-made man. He runs spectacular con games using inherited and laundered money. > 2. Trump isn’t an intelligent, shrewd strategist. He’s a bumbling incoherent ignoramus who needs to be handled by others. > 3. Trump is a criminal, and numerous Republicans are inextricably entangled in his crimes. > > Republicans may hate Trump, but they understand that their mythic house of cards comes tumbling down when these truths are exposed. There’s no way they compel Trump to testify, and they will break laws to keep Trump’s finances hidden. This, oh such much, this. The Republican party is 100% definitively linked to Trump. It is the party of Trump now. I think they thought they could control him as a useful idiot, but his popularity within the Republican party means he controls them. The time to get rid of Trump was when he joined the primaries or when he won the primaries. Oh sure, they would have been breaking their own rules, but so what. What a few party rules compared to laws. I don’t even think they would have lost very many votes by going against the will of their internal electorate. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that anything will turn a die-hard Republican voter against the Republican party. But again, I think they saw Trump as candidate as a potential positive. Trump was a outsider with no political experience. Perhaps they believed Trump when he said he would get the best people as advisors. Perhaps they thought Trump would actually listen to advice. Boy, were they wrong. But they cannot reverse direction now without get obliterated at the polls. They only thing that can save the Republican party is Republican voters not voting for them. Let them get obliterated even without reversing course, so that they can reverse course (and get the message that they need to). There can be a debate on policy, but there cannot be a debate on the rule of law within the country. There cannot be a debate on proto-fascism that the Republicans represent now. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/89 "2019-12-11T15:27:14Z")
There is no reversal of course available to them. For the good of the species, the Republican Party must cease to exist. Dibs on their financial assets. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/90 "2019-12-11T15:42:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > At some point in this impeachment process, Trump is going to have to appear live before the Senate and have to face some tough questioning. And there’s a better than even chance he’ll screw it up big time. He might commit perjury. He might start screaming. He might look stupid. There’s a good chance he’ll do all three. Trump could end up destroying his own Presidency. I posted this in the impeachment inquiry thread, but it might even apply to your point here: “Chief Justice John Roberts could rule on the scope of executive privilege with respect to these high-ranking administration officials as well as any diplomats, national security staff or budget office staff barred up until now by the White House from providing evidence. Under the Senate rules, the chief justice’s decision would be final, subject only to a vote of the full Senate.” [https://www.chicagotribune.com/opini...7ci-story.html](https://www.chicagotribune.com/opini...7ci-story.html) Could Roberts actually compel Trump to testify if the Dems call him? I’d skip work to watch that live. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/91 "2019-12-11T17:29:02Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Could Roberts actually compel Trump to testify if the Dems call him? I’d skip work to watch that live. That sounds an awful lot like a constitutional crisis waiting to happen. What happens exactly if Trump just says “No”? COuld they literally drag his ass kicking and screaming to the Capital? AFAIK, they can’t imprison him for contempt. Who would do the dragging? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/92 "2019-12-11T17:32:26Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That sounds an awful lot like a constitutional crisis waiting to happen. What happens exactly if Trump just says “No”? COuld they literally drag his ass kicking and screaming to the Capital? AFAIK, they can’t imprison him for contempt. Who would do the dragging? If the Executive branch isn’t checked by the Legislative branch or the Judicial branch, then who, exactly is it that can check the Executive? Nobody? Sounds like an argument for unchecked king-like power for the President. We don’t do that in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/93 "2019-12-11T19:16:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > At some point in this impeachment process, Trump is going to have to appear live before the Senate and have to face some tough questioning. I don’t think he has to testify. I don’t remember Clinton testifying during his impeachment, but I could be mistaken. I think most lawyers would advise against Trump testifying. He’s a nightmare client, uncontrollable, unpredictable. I suspect if I were somehow hired to represent him, I’d last less than a day. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/94 "2019-12-11T19:54:18Z")
If you think Trump is going to testify in the senate trial, I have a bridge to sell you. My bet is this is over in weeks, if not days, with few or no fantasy witnesses called (e.g. the Bidens, Schiff, Trump, etc.) . Everyone on high is telegraphing they want this impeachment business over ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/95 "2019-12-11T20:03:40Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Can the President ignore the will of Congress? That is fundamentally what the charges are about. Does Congress have the power of the purse, or does it not? Does Congress have the power to investigate, or does it not? The Senate will be forced to choose between upholding over two centuries of its own authority and being nothing more than a President’s lapdog. And, what he failed to do is send urgently needed money to Ukraine to help them defend themselves from Russian aggression. So, Trump benefits and his pal Putin benefits. Like everything else with this gang of thugs, all roads lead to Moscow. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/96 "2019-12-11T20:16:24Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > 1. Trump is a criminal, and **numerous Republicans are inextricably entangled in his crimes**. The key point! GOP pols have taken support from, and given aid and comfort to, an enemy nation waging war on the US, as Tramp’s UN ambassador and Putin’s defense minister, both cabinet officers, have declared. If Tramp goes down, these traitors go down too. Yes, their submission now means they’re okay with the next Dem president pulling the same shit as this one, but that’s a long way off. Next month matters less than tomorrow, survival-wise. > [@](#): > > …they will break laws to keep Trump’s finances hidden. Tramp will likely provoke an excuse for a national state of emergency and martial law before he’ll let his financials show how he’s owned and controlled. This is the real danger of the impeachment process - the accused wields deadly power. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/97 "2019-12-11T21:29:00Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > And, what he failed to do is send urgently needed money to Ukraine to help them defend themselves from Russian aggression. And he wanted Ukraine to essentially help Russia by promising to investigate itself for the crime everyone knows Russia committed against us! Even Senator Graham knows. [They opened up a counterintelligence investigation in July (2016),” Graham said. “We know the Russians are messing in our election. And it was the Russians, ladies and gentlemen, who stole the Democratic National Committee emails, Podesta’s emails and screwed around with Hillary Clinton. It wasn’t the Ukrainians. It was the Russians.](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/justice-inspector-general-testifies-russia-report/h_d4d9074452931c8862bcc1ec604d7362) ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/98 "2019-12-11T22:23:04Z")
I agree, the articles are weak. The Dem’s are scared of the Trump base and won’t fight. They think that we can come back from the Trump presidency and want to be seen as statesmen. As I said before, there is no coming back from the fact that Trump was elected president of the US. It was over right then and there. We are a broken country and it can not and will not go back to the way it was before Trump. That’s why Biden will lose. The Dem’s should have went all out. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/99 "2019-12-11T22:40:20Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That sounds an awful lot like a constitutional crisis waiting to happen. What happens exactly if Trump just says “No”? COuld they literally drag his ass kicking and screaming to the Capital? AFAIK, they can’t imprison him for contempt. Who would do the dragging? I have no idea how it plays out, exactly, but if the CJ of the SCOTUS says you have to appear and you don’t, then yes, I would have the Secret Service arrest him. > [@Airbeck](#): > > If the Executive branch isn’t checked by the Legislative branch or the Judicial branch, then who, exactly is it that can check the Executive? Nobody? Sounds like an argument for unchecked king-like power for the President. We don’t do that in this country. Exactly. No one answers to no one. > [@Oakminster](#): > > I don’t think he has to testify. I don’t remember Clinton testifying during his impeachment, but I could be mistaken. I think most lawyers would advise against Trump testifying. He’s a nightmare client, uncontrollable, unpredictable. I suspect if I were somehow hired to represent him, I’d last less than a day. Just because Clinton didn’t testify doesn’t mean Trump won’t have to if Roberts compels him to. And who cares what lawyers would advise him to do or not do? Of course he’d be terrible on the stand – that’s exactly why the Dems should call him as a witness – but that has no bearing on whether he’s legally bound to comply if Roberts says he is. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647/100 "2019-12-11T22:49:40Z")
That may be a bit murky. Roberts will _preside_ over the Senate trial, but where does it say he can _compel_ the President to respond to _anything_? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-impeachment-articles-are-weak-dude/844647.md?page=6)