# Those numbers in movie credits? -- Update **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960 "2010-04-13T16:10:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/21 "2010-04-15T01:03:34Z")
Using the list at [http://members.chello.nl/~a.degreef/Filmnummers.html](http://members.chello.nl/~a.degreef/Filmnummers.html) I collected the MPAA numbers that are the _ **lowest** _ for each year from 1928 to 2011. If you look at that list itself you’ll see that the MPAA numbers skip about over the years when films were assigned those numbers so that there’s no way to calculate one year’s range of numbers. More sophisticated methods will be needed for that purpose. But as a first step to further explorations, here’s what I collected as the _ **first** _ instance each year of the MPAA numbers. The list: Year Number Title 1928 18412 Noah’s Ark (I) 1929 3109 Perfect Day 1930 605 Hell Harbor 1931 202 The Avenger 1932 208 South of the Rio Grande 1933 207 The California Trail 1934 1 The World Moves On 1935 189 One in a Million (I) 1936 097 The Last Journey 1937 0401 The Life of the Party 1938 01416 The Divorce of Lady X 1939 01050 Paradise in Harlem 1940 0357 Bulldog Sees It Through 1941 2335 Navy Blues 1942 279 So You Want to Give Up Smoking 1943 03398 Jungle Drums 1944 03202 Yankee Doodle Donkey 1945 03835 Scrappily Married 1946 03858 Cheese Burglar 1947 04059 Stupidstitious Cat 1948 04209 Little Brown Jug 1949 04302 Toys Will Be Toys 1950 04594 Quack-a-Doodle Do 1951 04958 Audrey the Rainmaker 1952 04957 The Awful Tooth 1953 05315 Hysterical History 1954 04834 Greek Mirthology 1955 5365 Gym College 1956 05695 The Clockmaker’s Dog 1957 05582 A Hare-Breadth Finish 1958 06034 Heir Restorer 1959 06108 Felineous Assault 1960 06204 The Boss Is Always Right 1961 06303 The Kid from Mars 1962 06177 Shotgun Shambles 1963 06392 Drum Up a Tenant 1964 06506 Whiz Quiz Kid 1965 06586 Reading, Writhing, and Rithmetic 1966 06661 Sick Transit 1967 06719 The Blacksheep Blacksmith 1968 06780 Keep the Cool, Baby 1969 21684 The Illustrated Man 1970 21911 Zabriskie Point 1971 21759 Bedknobs and Broomsticks 1972 22587 Necromancy 1973 23052 Bang the Drum Slowly 1974 23145 The Midnight Man 1975 23575 Rafferty and the Gold Dust Twins 1976 24180 The End of the Game 1977 23077 Let’s Scare Jessica to Death 1978 24177 An Unmarried Woman 1979 25156 Norma Rae 1980 24438 A Change of Seasons 1981 25716 Clash of the Titans 1982 25927 Monsignor 1983 26225 The Being 1984 26721 Mike’s Murder 1985 27249 Volunteers 1986 27324 Ghost Warrior 1987 27852 Project X 1988 28094 Johnny Be Good 1989 27309 The Mighty Quinn 1990 28880 Don’t Tell Her It’s Me 1991 28656 Eyes of an Angel 1992 29632 Spellcaster 1993 18847 The Dead Talk Back 1994 30942 Blue Sky 1995 32387 Hellfire (I) 1996 32224 Mother Night 1997 33658 Quiet Days in Hollywood 1998 33083 Beach Babes 2: Cave Girl Island 1999 34724 Double Jeopardy 2000 33087 Shriek If You Know What I Did Last Friday the Thirteenth 2001 35768 The Body 2002 34813 Extreme Ops 2003 32822 Billabong Odyssey 2004 38817 Dragon Storm 2005 39360 The Ice Harvest 2006 39360 Something New (I) 2007 39360 The Hitcher 2008 39360 Doubt (I) 2009 39360 Adventureland 2010 44792 She’s Out of My League 2011 45393 The Prodigy Finding the IMDb Title number for each of these might reveal something. Might not. Notice the major jump in numbers in 1968-1969. Also note that #1 in 1934 is not the oldest year with an MPAA number, and that those older years, 1928 and 1929 especially, may have been “retrofitted” at some point, possibly in the early 1940’s for 1929 and maybe as late as 1968 or 1969 for 1928. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/22 "2010-04-15T01:30:02Z")
My guess: All MPAA certificates issued for films originally made before 1934 were for reissues of those films in 1934 or later. Part of the MPAA revisions in 1934 were that all films released by MPAA members had to have certificates, even reissues. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/23 "2010-04-15T01:36:10Z")
I’m just now noticing something odd from the list in Post #21: 2005 39360 The Ice Harvest 2006 39360 Something New (I) 2007 39360 The Hitcher 2008 39360 Doubt (I) 2009 39360 Adventureland What do you suppose that means? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/24 "2010-04-15T01:39:18Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > Do you have any idea why they continue to use those MPAA Certificate numbers when the rating system associated with it is so nearly a dead issue? What do you mean by a dead issue? The MPAA rating system is alive and well. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/25 "2010-04-15T01:51:44Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > Answering my own question: I doubt this qualifies as “true porn” by any stretch, but at least it’s touted as > > [Tickling the Soles of Her Feet (1898)](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0237828/) That plot description looks like a hoax. I find it extremely unlikely that a legitimate studio like American Mutoscope would be involved in making porn in 1898 (the plot description says it goes _way_ beyond tickling feet). ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/26 "2010-04-15T01:53:02Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > What do you mean by a dead issue? The MPAA rating system is alive and well. Thanks for pointing that out! I had confused the Production Code (and its demise in the late 60’s) with the MPAA system. [Hays Code - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Production_Code#The_Pawnbroker_and_the_end_of_the_Code) was the source of my confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/27 "2010-04-15T01:56:12Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > That title looks like a hoax. It does not appear in the American Film Institute Catalog of Motion Pictures, and I find it extremely unlikely that a legitimate studio like American Mutoscope would be involved in making porn in 1898 (the plot description says it goes _way_ beyond tickling feet). Would that be a comment on the vetting process at IMDb? There were other titles in those early years that looked equally suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/28 "2010-04-15T02:01:56Z")
The title was legit, just the plot description is a hoax. What other titles are you thinking of? ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/29 "2010-04-15T02:10:51Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > The title was legit, just the plot description is a hoax. What other titles are you thinking of? With nothing to go on but a title, I thought [Blanket-Tossing a New Recruit (Short 1898) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0227672/) seemed a little bizarre at least. I know PC has changed a lot of things, but this seems odd in spite of that. The high rating only adds to the funny feeling I got. If you’ve seen it and have more to say about it than a title, maybe I won’t be as amazed. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/30 "2010-04-15T02:13:53Z")
That one is legit, believe it or not. The first volume of the AFI Catalog gets all flustered in the introduction, apologizing for the offensive titles or plots of some of the early films. I doubt that any of the 1,265 people rating the film at the IMDb have even seen it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/31 "2010-04-15T02:25:08Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > That one is legit, believe it or not. The first volume of the AFI Catalog gets all flustered in the introduction, apologizing for the offensive titles or plots of some of the early films. I doubt that any of the 1,265 people rating the film at the IMDb have even seen it, though. That in itself seems odd to me. I make no claims about my knowledge of early movie history. Except for old B Westerns made before I was born, I doubt if I’ve seen 20 features made before 1935, and if I’ve seen any silents they were very short ones. For me, movie history starts in the 40’s. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/32 "2010-04-15T03:08:28Z")
Then I’m sort of a mirror image. The great majority of the 6,000 or so films 1891–1903 in the IMDb were added by me. And the majority of the 5,190 U.S. features 1912–1920 were added by me. I’ve probably seen ten times as many features from the 1920s as I have from the 2000s. If you want a must-see list of movies before 1935, well, here I am. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/33 "2010-04-15T13:07:36Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Then I’m sort of a mirror image. The great majority of the 6,000 or so films 1891–1903 in the IMDb were added by me. And the majority of the 5,190 U.S. features 1912–1920 were added by me. > > I’ve probably seen ten times as many features from the 1920s as I have from the 2000s. If you want a must-see list of movies before 1935, well, here I am. I must say that’s not all that big a surprise for me. I seem to recall (though not very clearly) other comments from you in other discussions about your interest in and knowledge of older movies. That’s great! How many titles (total) have you added to IMDb? Aside from those 1904 films you mentioned upthread, are there other blocks of titles you provide at nearly the same time of entry? I would be surprised if there isn’t a lot of discontinuity and jumping around in the IMDb title numbers because of that very approach to adding titles. Another thing: how much contact do you maintain with other IMDb contributors? Is there a “community” of sorts? Or do people operate more independently? ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/34 "2010-04-15T15:15:58Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > > [@Cicero](#): > > > > **Zeldar** , I think you are talking of two numbering systems here aren’t you? The MPAA Certificates and the IMDB numbering system? It wasn’t clear to me initially when I read the thread first up. > > Quite so. One set is totally different from the other. I’m trying to square them up as best I can. The thread title refers to the MPAA Certificates numbers. I’ve about convinced myself that further efforts to make these numbering systems “square up” in any meaningful way will require some historical details that others may be able to provide. As evidence, I looked at the latest MPAA numbers for 2010. There are 158 such 2010 numbers and I selected just the latest of them. In MPAA number sequence and with IMDb Title URL’s provided, we have: [Meadowoods (Video 2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1616512/) 2010 46000 Meadowoods [MacGruber (2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1470023/) 2010 46002 MacGruber [Just Another Day (2009) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1412367/) 2010 46005 Just Another Day [Westbrick Murders (2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0903036/) 2010 46008 Westbrick Murders [The Losers (2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480255/) 2010 46012 The Losers (I) [Nic & Tristan Go Mega Dega (2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1232202/) 2010 46013 Nic & Tristan Go Mega Dega [Holy Rollers (2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1143896/) 2010 46015 Holy Rollers [Operation: Endgame (2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1268987/) 2010 46019 Rogues Gallery [Casino Jack and the United States of Money (2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1540814/) 2010 46020 Casino Jack and the United States of Money [Open House (2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1448762/) 2010 46023 Open House [You Again (2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1414382/) 2010 46026 You Again [My Girlfriend's Boyfriend (2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1447793/) 2010 46029 My Girlfriend’s Boyfriend [Your Highness (2011) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1240982/) 2010 46040 Your Highness [Secretariat (2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1028576/) 2010 46042 Secretariat [Exit Through the Gift Shop (2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1587707/) 2010 46044 Exit Through the Gift Shop Taking the lowest (MPAA) numbered of those and looking on either side, there are: [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480254/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480254/) Twixter (2009) [The Losers (2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480255/) 2010 46012 The Losers (I) [Night Fliers (2009) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480256/) Night Fliers (2009) Taking the highest (MPAA) numbered of those and looking on either side, there are: [Hinç (1976) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1616511/) Hinç (1977) [Meadowoods (Video 2010) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1616512/) 2010 46000 Meadowoods [Metallica: All Nightmare Long (Music Video 2008) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1616513/) Metallica: All Nightmare Long (2008) (V) If you can spot any patterns or schemes that will help to “square up” these number systems, please comment. Otherwise, this seems a dead issue to me. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/35 "2010-04-15T17:06:06Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > How many titles (total) have you added to IMDb? New titles, about 8,000. > [@Zeldar](#): > > Aside from those 1904 films you mentioned upthread, are there other blocks of titles you provide at nearly the same time of entry? I would be surprised if there isn’t a lot of discontinuity and jumping around in the IMDb title numbers because of that very approach to adding titles. To the contrary, I think my submission method would cause some _continuity_, because I tend to submit films from the same year as a block, in alphabetical order. I don’t jump around randomly. > [@Zeldar](#): > > Another thing: how much contact do you maintain with other IMDb contributors? Is there a “community” of sorts? Or do people operate more independently? Independently. There is a message board for submitters, but it’s for business, not socializing. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/36 "2010-04-15T17:14:11Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > I’ve about convinced myself that further efforts to make these numbering systems “square up” in any meaningful way will require some historical details that others may be able to provide. > If you can spot any patterns or schemes that will help to “square up” these number systems, please comment. > > Otherwise, this seems a dead issue to me. Could you explain why you would think there _would_ be any reason why these two systems would “square up”? They were created at different times, for different purposes, by different organizations. One system is only for American movies released or reissued after 1934, the other is for all movies of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/37 "2010-04-15T21:30:11Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Could you explain why you would think there _would_ be any reason why these two systems would “square up”? They were created at different times, for different purposes, by different organizations. One system is only for American movies released or reissued after 1934, the other is for all movies of all time. It was mostly a vain hope bordering on idle curiosity. Your explanation makes sense and I was mostly just exploring things to see if there was anything of _trivia_ value going on. I’m convinced there’s no such thing there. Thanks, **Walloon** , for helping me arrive at that conclusion. I could have floundered around much longer looking for things that just aren’t there, had it not been for your insights and knowledge of the two systems. Good luck in your future efforts with IMDb. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/38 "2010-04-15T21:45:34Z")
**Ten Must-See Silent Movies** 1. The General (1926) 2. Metropolis (1927) 3. Sunrise (1927) 4. The Man With a Movie Camera (1929) 5. Nosferatu (1922) 6. The Gold Rush (1925) 7. The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928) 8. The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920) 9. The Battleship Potemkin (1925) 10. Greed (1924) ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960/39 "2010-04-16T01:52:24Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > My guess: All MPAA certificates issued for films originally made before 1934 were for reissues of those films in 1934 or later. Part of the MPAA revisions in 1934 were that all films released by MPAA members had to have certificates, even reissues. This is correct. I have seen an example of this on the Marx Brothers film _Monkey Business_- the opening credits themselves have an MPAA seal in them without a certificate number (as the film was made after the adoption of the Hays Code, but before the certificate system began), but tacked on to the front of the film was an MPAA card with a certificate number beginning or ending with the letter R, which I assume stands for “reissue” or “rerelease.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits-update/535960.md?page=1)