# Those numbers in movie credits? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 26, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits/184573 "2003-06-26T18:02:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits/184573/1 "2003-06-26T18:02:22Z")
I don’t even know the official name for those numbers shown at the end of the credits. Production number maybe? Anyway, they’re now in the 30,000+ range. Since IMDB lists 10+ times that many titles, what do those numbers mean? Is it just Hollywood productions? When did they go into use? How many movies (altogether, including unrated things but intended for some public showing) must have been made? And here I consider myself a movie buff! ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits/184573/2 "2003-06-26T18:59:53Z")
Those are the certificate numbers issued by the [MPAA](http://us.imdb.com/Glossary/M). Closing in on 40000 now, they started in the 30s with when the Hayes office started keeping an eye on movies produced in the U.S. You’ll notice the number is displayed below the MPAA’s logo of an ellipse (a globe perhaps?) with a film reel superimposed. The number of films in the IMDb is greater than the MPAA number for several reasons chief of which are the foreign films included there. Also not all U.S. films get an MPAA certificate, even when they are produced in Hollywood. DD ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits/184573/3 "2003-06-26T19:06:03Z")
Those numbers are given by the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA). In the old days, these numbers meant that the film adhered to the Motion Picture Code. Nowadays, they have no meaning, but they still exist, I guess as proof that they’ve been rated by the MPAA. The logo of the MPAA (a globe with a reel of film in the middle with “Motion Picture Association of America” underneath, before that, a circle or oval with a stylized “MPPDA” or later “MPAA”) appears next to it. The number appears sometimes by itself, sometimes with “Certificate No.” in front of it, and the word “Approved” often appears back in the Code days. Bonus fact: the logo that often accompanies the MPAA logo in the credits represents a labor union that has most off-screen movie people (stagehands, etc.) as its members, The International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE). The logo’s sort of an inverted star with “I A T S E” in the points and “IA” in the middle. The text that usually accompanies it in the credits of films is “Produced under the jurisdiction of (IATSE logo) Affiliated with AFL-CIO-CLC (or earlier, AFL-CIO or AFofL)”. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits/184573/4 "2003-06-26T19:10:51Z")
Gracias, DD. It had always been my assumption that they were tied to ratings and I also assumed the MPAA had some connection, since, as you mention, those pieces of information always appear together. At one time I had tried to deduce the number of films per year by comparing the _certificate numbers_ of two films, and as best as I can recall the number was surprisingly low. Thanks for your help! ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits/184573/5 "2003-06-26T19:16:39Z")
Thanks to you as well, mobo85. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits/184573/6 "2003-06-26T19:38:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DesertDog \* > Closing in on 40000 now, Yep! I’ve been looking forward to the big four-oh-oh-oh-oh for years now. _The Hulk_ was 39955, so it can’t be long now. Whatever film it is will probably be something really dumb and obscure, but I plan to watch it anyway. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits/184573/7 "2003-06-26T19:43:11Z")
Anybody know if there was a #1? BTW, when I checked the home page a bit ago MPSIMS was at 950000. Won’t be too long before that column will stretch. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits/184573/8 "2003-06-26T19:44:03Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Zeldar \* **Anybody know if there was a #1?** It should be pointed out that the MPAA does not have a list of numbers on hand (although someone must keep track of them, since they keep going up in order). We do know, however, that the film marked No.1 was _The World Moves On_ in 1934. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits/184573/9 "2003-06-26T19:45:07Z")
Another thought: it would be the ultimate in inside terminology if people would refer to the number instead of the title. Wonder if they issue new numbers for things like directors’ cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-numbers-in-movie-credits/184573/10 "2003-06-26T19:48:39Z")
mobo85, I guess that was the ultimate irony!