# Those of you who think that branding the teabaggers as racist is premature... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 15, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167 "2010-04-15T04:12:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/121 "2010-04-26T18:39:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Actually, the price tag for the stimulus will be _lower_ than advertised, since the government didn’t just give away money but also purchased equity using it. The federal government now owns a 51% stake in General Motors, a controlling interest in AIG (don’t remember how much exactly), and smaller stakes in Chrysler, Ford and various other financial institutions. Those will be sold off over time, recouping some of the money. We’ll also be repaid a portion of the stimulus “gift” money, since it comes with (frankly, inadequate) strings that some banks will want to be rid of nonetheless. Regardless, however much the stimulus eventually costs, we’d be looking at something like a 30% unemployment rate right now without it, rather than 15%, thanks to the collapse of tens of thousands of small businesses unable to obtain credit to meet their payroll requirements. The stimulus wasn’t done very well, but it _did_ have to be done. > > The jury is out on how much the healthcare reform bill will eventually cost; some analysts say it will save money, some say it will basically be a wash, and some say it will cost a lot. Most of its provisions don’t go into effect until 2013-4, and forecasting the exact cost is impossible since much of it depends on future demand on Medicare and things like that. > > To the best of my knowledge, there haven’t been _any_ past instances of rebates like Bush’s 2003 one. However, 22% is a lot less than was advertised by the Bush Administration. You don’t have to take my word for it - you can read about it [here](http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/01/10/bush-stimulus-may-have-only-modest-effect/), in the _conservative_ Wall Street Journal. > > This problem is not limited to liberals. None of us are psychic. Well, this particular part of our conversation started out by discussing the: White guy spending money=tolerated by conservatives Black buy spending money /=/ tolerated by conservatives. I see your information above regarding the stimulus bill. A lot of people disagree that it’s going to turn out to do what they say. And again, they disagree not because of the color of the guy that put it into place, but because it WAS put into place. The one thing I do know, from the Horse’s Mouth in several of his campaign and after winning the election speeches, is all of the hype surrounding the UE %. The main push was “we HAVE to have this or UE will go above 8%”. Well it did go above 8%, by quite a bit. I don’t want this to go too far off into a hijack, because there are too many things for two working people to cover when it comes to all of the earmarks and special interests in the Stimulus package. But, I don’t agree that it’s a good thing that our government own our auto industry. The healthcare bill. That, like the stimulus bill has so much fluff and unnecessary spending in it. The healthcare bill itself is like tearing down a 3 story mansion and starting over just to repair the roof. Just as one tiny example. I read part of the "palin deathpanel, beautiful young woman croaks"OP. The article the OP links in that thread states in the first part of the article (paraphrased of course) that MEDICAID refused to cover her. Isn’t that the same medicaid that pelosi and friends swore is to be overhauled and cured of fraud and abuse, so as to pay for the healhcare bill? Why is nothing happening there? Bush and his party were absolutely DREADFUL about communicating with the press and letting them know the progress of things. This presidency is going along those same lines only worse. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/122 "2010-04-26T19:20:06Z")
> [@Not Really All That Bright](#): > > Bush cut taxes by $1.35 trillion in 2001, and a further $800 billion or thereabouts in 2003. Raising taxes, of course, is tantamount to political suicide. You can get a pretty good idea of how much of the current federal deficit is Obama’s fault here (short version: about 20%). > > Guess what the projected federal deficit for 2010 is? $1.35 trillion. IOW, Obama’s deficit is adding more to the national debt in one year than Bush did with tax cuts in all eight years of his Presidency put together. Is that what you mean to say? It seems that you are going along with the general notion that Obama is a Keynesian, raising deficits in a recession and reducing them otherwise. Obama added $787 billion in his first year, and is proposing a $1.56 trillion for his latest budget. His own projections during that same budget period is that we will not be in recession - why then is the deficit being raised to its highest point in US history? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/123 "2010-04-26T19:29:03Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Obama is a Keynesian Damn it! He was fucking born in America! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/124 "2010-04-26T19:29:46Z")
And what he does in the privacy of his own bedroom is his own business, no one else’s. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/125 "2010-04-26T19:37:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > IOW, Obama’s deficit is adding more to the national debt in one year than Bush did with tax cuts in all eight years of his Presidency put together. Is that what you mean to say? > > It seems that you are going along with the general notion that Obama is a Keynesian, raising deficits in a recession and reducing them otherwise. Obama added $787 billion in his first year, and is proposing a $1.56 trillion for his latest budget. His own projections during that same budget period is that we will not be in recession - why then is the deficit being raised to its highest point in US history? > > Regards, > Shodan Oh yeah, I should probably take a sec to refute this gibberish. The current deficit will be what it is because of: The wars. The Bush tax cuts. The bailout (under bush) The reduced tax revenue due to the recession The stimulus. [http://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/blogs/2010w05/bush%20policies%20deficits.jpg](http://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/blogs/2010w05/bush%20policies%20deficits.jpg) Okay, see if you can manage to follow this… Most of the current deficit is the wreckage left by Bush. Obama’s contribution is the stimulus. And it was necessary. It deflected a depression. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/126 "2010-04-26T20:12:37Z")
So he is not a Keynesian, Obama just spends money like a drunken sailor. Or a liberal, which is the same thing. Obama apparently has no power over his own budget. So I guess when he said he would reduce the deficit, he was lying. I realize you are a liberal, and therefore rational thought about the economy is probably beyond you, but perhaps the implications of your own statements will penetrate. Probably not, though. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/127 "2010-04-26T20:21:34Z")
When he said he would reduce the deficit, we had not just experienced the worst economic collapse in 50 years. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/128 "2010-04-26T20:28:04Z")
Who spends more, the person who pays $100 for a yearly subscription or the person who pays $15 for a monthly subscription? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/129 "2010-04-26T20:30:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So he is not a Keynesian, Obama just spends money like a drunken sailor. Or a liberal, which is the same thing. You really are a stupid cowardly sack of shit, aren’t you? You aren’t even man enough to admit when you’ve been shown wrong. You’ll outright lie and bluster rather than let a real thought into that empty skull of yours. > [@](#): > > Obama apparently has no power over his own budget. Slow down fucktard. One thing at a time. The current deficit will be what it is because of: [ul] [li] **The wars.** He can’t just end them instantly. Surely even a stupid hick like you can understand this much.[/li][li] **The Bush tax cuts.** They will end soon, but they are still costing us money.[/li][li]**The bailout (under bush)** Not done by Obama.[/li][li] **The reduced tax revenue due to the recession** Not Obama’s doing.[/li][li] **The stimulus.** Necessary, because it deflected a depression.[/li][/ul] So, how much control did he have there you simpering fucking cretin? > [@](#): > > So I guess when he said he would reduce the deficit, he was lying. He will cut it. They plan is for it to be much reduced by the end of his term. > [@](#): > > I realize you are a liberal, and therefore rational thought about the economy is probably beyond you, but perhaps the implications of your own statements will penetrate. Probably not, though. You are literally too stupid to understand what you’re talking about. Go huff some glue shit-for-brains. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/130 "2010-04-26T20:48:03Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Just as one tiny example. > I read part of the "palin deathpanel, beautiful young woman croaks"OP. The article the OP links in that thread states in the first part of the article (paraphrased of course) that MEDICAID refused to cover her. > > Isn’t that the same medicaid that pelosi and friends swore is to be overhauled and cured of fraud and abuse, so as to pay for the healhcare bill? Why is nothing happening there? Medicaid is a program for low income individuals and families. The woman started receiving monetary government assistance, which pushed her income level above the threshold of eligibility for Medicaid. If you read further in the thread, you see **SA** actually admit he was wrong, which is a pretty rare event. I wouldn’t take very much from just the OP of that thread. > [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Bush and his party were absolutely DREADFUL about communicating with the press and letting them know the progress of things. This presidency is going along those same lines only worse. How is it worse? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/131 "2010-04-26T21:03:46Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > Medicaid is a program for low income individuals and families. The woman started receiving monetary government assistance, which pushed her income level above the threshold of eligibility for Medicaid. Right. Which is kind of part of my “tearing down a three story mansion to fix a leaky roof” analogy. Instead of the insane price tag for a really bad bill, things wrong (like this) with Medicaid could be addressed. That’s what they kept promising us anyway, “all of the healthcare reform bill will be paid for by fixes to fraud, overspending and abuse of Medicaid and Medicare”. But it was a mere example. The whole push for the Healthcare bill was (warning sarcastic exaggeration ahead) …supposedly because people were being turned away right and left and dying in the streets from lack of insurance. My POINT is, if pelosi and crew was really so worried about the end result there were far easier ways to fix the desperate cases, and a far more efficient and inexpensive way to fix the insurance problem had they not insisted upon shoving it down everyone’s throats. Why did (and still do) the fixes for the Medicaid and Medicare programs have to wait until the health bill pass? Fraud, abuse and overspending should have been addressed long before now, and certainly now that it’s a crucial part of funding this new bill. > [@](#): > > How is it worse? Answered above re: his new bills and future plans. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/132 "2010-04-26T21:58:55Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > My POINT is, if pelosi and crew was really so worried about the end result there were far easier ways to fix the desperate cases, and a far more efficient and inexpensive way to fix the insurance problem had they not insisted upon shoving it down everyone’s throats. Did you participate in one of the GD threads on this topic? I’m sure that would have been a good place to discuss the solutions you seem to have. Or explain why you think the bill is “really bad” or has an “insane price tag”. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/133 "2010-04-26T23:41:28Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > Did you participate in one of the GD threads on this topic? I’m sure that would have been a good place to discuss the solutions you seem to have. Or explain why you think the bill is “really bad” or has an “insane price tag”. I’d like to hear more about the ‘shoving it down everyone’s throats’ bits too. It’s kinda titillating to think of all those poor congresscritters and constituents choking on something or other. Did the event induce a sensation of drowning, like waterboarding is supposed to? Was it torture for em all, or did some of them get a little thrill? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/134 "2010-04-26T23:45:43Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > My POINT is, if pelosi and crew was really so worried about the end result there were far easier ways to fix the desperate cases, and a far more efficient and inexpensive way to fix the insurance problem had they not insisted upon shoving it down everyone’s throats. Please stop using this phrase. Nothing was shoved down anyone’s throats; there was a year and a half of public debate on health care reform, and the individual provisions of the new legislation are individually exceedingly popular. What was shoved down people’s throats was a bunch of nonsense about the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/135 "2010-04-27T12:12:02Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > He will cut it. They plan is for it to be much reduced by the end of his term. I see. So the chart you posted was lying, and you were lying when you posted it. You are also stupidly wrong about the Bush tax cuts causing Obama’s 2011 $1.56 trillion deficit - > [@](#): > > [Obama wants tax breaks proposed by President George W. Bush to expire this year](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obama-budget-lets-bush-tax-cuts-expire-2010-02-01) So Bush is responsible for a deficit caused by tax cuts that no longer exist, while Obama is not responsible for spending increases that do. > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > When he said he would reduce the deficit, we had not just experienced the worst economic collapse in 50 years. And, now that that has been averted, the deficit Obama is trying to create is higher than it was during the crisis. > [@](#): > > [After harshly criticizing President Bush for running $3.3 trillion in deficits over eight years, President Obama’s budget would run $7.6 trillion in deficits over what would be his eight years in the Oval Office, with 2010 earning a $1.6 trillion deficit—$143 billion higher than the recession-driven 2009 deficit.](http://www.askheritage.org/Answer.aspx?ID=741) Again, Bush is a terrible President because he created a deficit in response to a recession, and did not eliminate it upon recovery. Obama is a great President because he created a deficit in response to a recession, and then made it four times worse upon recovery. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/136 "2010-04-27T12:42:40Z")
If we teabag them enough maybe they’ll stop shoving bills down our throats! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/137 "2010-04-27T13:11:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > [Obama wants tax breaks proposed by President George W. Bush to expire this year](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obama-budget-lets-bush-tax-cuts-expire-2010-02-01) > > So Bush is responsible for a deficit caused by tax cuts that no longer exist… > Shodan You left out an important qualifier on that sentence, It should read: “So Bush is responsible for a deficit caused by tax cuts that no longer exist at some point in the future” When playing surreal time games, you should always make it clear that that’s what you’re doing. Otherwise people might become confused and think you’re a [Stoopnagle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoopnagle_and_Budd). ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/138 "2010-04-27T16:21:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I see. So the chart you posted was lying, and you were lying when you posted it. When does his term end you stupid fucking troll? This is the face of the modern conservative, craven, lying children, too stupid to think for themselves. Shodan, you’re officially the Lekatt of politics. > [@](#): > > You are also stupidly wrong about the Bush tax cuts causing Obama’s 2011 $1.56 trillion deficit - > So Bush is responsible for a deficit caused by tax cuts that no longer exist, while Obama is not responsible for spending increases that do. When do those tax cuts end again? C’mon you can do this! > [@](#): > > And, now that that has been averted, the deficit Obama is trying to create is higher than it was during the crisis. The worst has been averted. But it’s not over yet. And the vast majority of the deficit that Obama is running is due to Bush. The bit he did, the Stimulus was necessary to deflect an depression. Just like your mom had to drink Jägermeister to deflect the depression she had over being pregnant with you. And these deficits for the stimulus were bad, don’t get me wrong, but they are less bad than going into a deflationary spiral. But you’re too stupid to understand subtle things, so I imagine these concepts won’t make a dent in your fucking mullet. > [@](#): > > Again, Bush is a terrible President because he created a deficit in response to a recession, and did not eliminate it upon recovery. Obama is a great President because he created a deficit in response to a recession, and then made it four times worse upon recovery. Hey stupid, the recession Bush made was a doozy. It almost caused a depression, and it will take time to remove its effects. The recovery isn’t over. But you’ll just ignore that in your response, because you’re a lying bitch without an ounce of integrity. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/139 "2010-04-27T16:29:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Again, Bush is a terrible President because he created a deficit in response to a recession, and did not eliminate it upon recovery. Obama is a great President because he created a deficit in response to a recession, and then made it four times worse upon recovery. Your posts in the GD thread I linked to pretty much establish your credibility on this issue. People can make up their own minds from that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167/140 "2010-04-27T16:36:12Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Shodan, you’re officially the Lekatt of politics. \*Ouch! \* I don’t think that should be allowed, even in the Pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-of-you-who-think-that-branding-the-teabaggers-as-racist-is-premature/536167.md?page=8)