# Those states banning abortions made sure to pass laws supporting single mothers, right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 26, 2019, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538 "2019-05-26T05:01:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/21 "2019-05-26T19:20:25Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Because pro-lifers will just argue that if a woman is too poor to raise a baby, she can turn the baby over to an adoption agency and walk away. No woman is obligated to raise a baby she doesn’t want to raise, so a woman who chooses to keep the baby is choosing to accept all the hardships associated of keeping the baby. Or, that the woman should not have sex, and if she does have sex, she is obligated for keeping the baby she does not want, and if she fails in that regard the state can press charges. I know it sounds cold, but if you look at it from the perspective where the fetus is a person, it should make sense. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/22 "2019-05-26T19:40:08Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Or, that the woman should not have sex, and if she does have sex, she is obligated for keeping the baby she does not want, and if she fails in that regard the state can press charges. > > I know it sounds cold, but if you look at it from the perspective where the fetus is a person, it should make sense. > > ~Max If you look at it from the perspective that the woman is a person, it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/23 "2019-05-26T20:02:57Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Or, that the woman should not have sex, and if she does have sex, she is obligated for keeping the baby she does not want, and if she fails in that regard the state can press charges. > > I know it sounds cold, but if you look at it from the perspective where the fetus is a person, it should make sense. > > ~Max Under what circumstances does the state have the right to compel you to submit to invasive, dangerous, medical procedures to save the life of a third person? Do you support mandatory organ donation? How about blood and bone marrow from living donors? Should the state compel my parents to donate blood if I need it? I clearly have a right to life. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/24 "2019-05-27T17:04:33Z")
Since it is well known that children do much better in two parent households, giving young mothers huge benefits contingent on their partners leaving is a horrible idea. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/25 "2019-05-27T17:19:36Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Since it is well known that children do much better in two parent households, giving young mothers huge benefits contingent on their partners leaving is a horrible idea. The main reason why children do better in two parent households is that it’s easier to raise children when you have four hands instead of two. If we gave single mothers an extra set of hands–whether in the form of additional services or funds–then we could improve their and their kids’ quality of life. And you know what, **puddlegum**? We could require recipients of that assistance be on birth control, as well as being enrolled in sex education programs. But conservatives like yourself have a problem with those things too. You guys seem to have plenty of ideas for how we can further shame and punish people, but no actual solutions. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/26 "2019-05-27T17:38:12Z")
[Documentary on what happened to kids, and pregnant women, in Ceausescu’s Romania with draconic restrictions on abortion (and contraception) and little support for mothers.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGxE6qhPssg) (Spoiler: it was not good.) ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/27 "2019-05-27T18:34:14Z")
I’m willing to bet we’re at the point where a fertilized egg could likely be removed safely from a woman’s uterus and then be implanted (with the right hormone manipulation) on the peritoneum of a man–[there have been documented pregnancies that resulted in viable babies that gestated in this manner.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_pregnancy) If the bodies of adults are property of the state and may be used as incubators then it stands to reason that men should line up for the job of being incubators too–I mean, sure there’s a risk and all, but women have been the sole carriers of this risk for millennia so I think it’s really time the men stepped up for it. Every man who’s been sexually active needs to be on the list to receive a transplanted fetus, regardless of their wishes or their place in life or how much a pregnancy might disrupt said life, just as women are. Fair’s fair, right? I bet every man arguing that women should be forced to gestate every fetus would be signing right up for this procedure, right? And if not–well, maybe ought to sit with that and examine your motives for insisting women be “held accountable” for the “consequences” of having sex when men aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/28 "2019-05-27T18:39:55Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > I’m willing to bet we’re at the point where a fertilized egg could likely be removed safely from a woman’s uterus and then be implanted (with the right hormone manipulation) on the peritoneum of a man–[there have been documented pregnancies that resulted in viable babies that gestated in this manner.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_pregnancy) If the bodies of adults are property of the state and may be used as incubators then it stands to reason that men should line up for the job of being incubators too–I mean, sure there’s a risk and all, but women have been the sole carriers of this risk for millennia so I think it’s really time the men stepped up for it. Every man who’s been sexually active needs to be on the list to receive a transplanted fetus, regardless of their wishes or their place in life or how much a pregnancy might disrupt said life, just as women are. Fair’s fair, right? I bet every man arguing that women should be forced to gestate every fetus would be signing right up for this procedure, right? And if not–well, maybe ought to sit with that and examine your motives for insisting women be “held accountable” for the “consequences” of having sex when men aren’t. I could see someone seriously arguing that forcing men to incubate fetuses “goes against God’s will” and would thus be an abomination. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/29 "2019-05-27T18:49:01Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I could see someone seriously arguing that forcing men to incubate fetuses “goes against God’s will” and would thus be an abomination. Well, of course they would–I mean, anything that inconveniences or endangers men is something god is against aside from sending them off to face a hail of bullets in a war. I’ve noticed that the more likely something is to adversely affect a man the more likely he is to argue that it’s against nature to expect him to face it. Hence the very old rich men who send the young and poor ones off to die to secure their monetary interests. Force them old rich fucks to put on a pack and pick up an AR-15 along with the young, fit troops and there’d be no more wars. Force men to bear the children and face death doing it and suddenly abortion becomes a sacrament. And so it goes. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/30 "2019-05-27T19:25:32Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The main reason why children do better in two parent households is that it’s easier to raise children when you have four hands instead of two. > > If we gave single mothers an extra set of hands–whether in the form of additional services or funds–then we could improve their and their kids’ quality of life. And you know what, **puddlegum**? We could require recipients of that assistance be on birth control, as well as being enrolled in sex education programs. But conservatives like yourself have a problem with those things too. You guys seem to have plenty of ideas for how we can further shame and punish people, but no actual solutions. Where is the evidence that additional services or funds could actually replace a father in the home? I have no problem with forcing people on welfare to be on birth control, when norplant was approved there were proposals to make it mandatory for welfare recipients to be on it, but those proposals were opposed by the ACLU and people said it was a conspiracy to limit the number of black people. Enrolling mothers in sex education classes would be a waste or our money and their time, it does not work. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/31 "2019-05-27T19:42:06Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Enrolling mothers in sex education classes would be a waste or our money and their time, it does not work. When did this happen, and how did it fail? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/32 "2019-05-27T19:51:43Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Where is the evidence that additional services or funds could actually replace a father in the home? Where is the evidence that abortion ban will improve the greater good? Ya’ll seem real keen on having hard evidence when it comes to something ya’ll are already inclined not to like. But when it comes to the things you learn in Sunday School, suddenly “evidence” doesn’t matter at all. But since I’m a strong believer in evidence and you asked (kind of) nicely, here you go: [Children aren’t any worse off in single parent households (as long as there are positive relationships present)](https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-more-evidence-that-children-aren-t-any-worse-off-in-single-parent-households) [State and federal tax subsidies may reduce child maltreatment by single mothers](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11150-016-9346-9) > [@](#): > > I have no problem with forcing people on welfare to be on birth control, when norplant was approved there were proposals to make it mandatory for welfare recipients to be on it, but those proposals were opposed by the ACLU and people said it was a conspiracy to limit the number of black people. See, I wasn’t even talking about welfare. I was talking about services beyond welfare…that could be supported by government funding and private donations. You’re a young single mother and you’re seriously considering an abortion? Well, here’s a program you might be interested in, that can address the particular concerns you’re having about your pregnancy. If you’re worried because you don’t have a support network, the program will provide that for you. If you’re worried about health issues, we have doctors who will give you state-of-the-art care, free of cost. If you’re worried about finances, we’ll help you get on the path of financial independence. Just as long as you agree to practice one of a multitude of contraceptive methods (including abstinence) and you agree to participate in sex education/parenting classes. > [@](#): > > Enrolling mothers in sex education classes would be a waste or our money and their time, it does not work. Where’s the evidence for this statement? Because here’s [evidence](https://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20071220/sex-education-works-study-shows#1) that refutes it. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/33 "2019-05-28T02:54:35Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Where is the evidence that abortion ban will improve the greater good? > > Ya’ll seem real keen on having hard evidence when it comes to something ya’ll are already inclined not to like. But when it comes to the things you learn in Sunday School, suddenly “evidence” doesn’t matter at all. > > But since I’m a strong believer in evidence and you asked (kind of) nicely, here you go: > > [Children aren’t any worse off in single parent households (as long as there are positive relationships present)](https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-more-evidence-that-children-aren-t-any-worse-off-in-single-parent-households) > > [State and federal tax subsidies may reduce child maltreatment by single mothers](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11150-016-9346-9) > > See, I wasn’t even talking about welfare. I was talking about services beyond welfare…that could be supported by government funding and private donations. You’re a young single mother and you’re seriously considering an abortion? Well, here’s a program you might be interested in, that can address the particular concerns you’re having about your pregnancy. If you’re worried because you don’t have a support network, the program will provide that for you. If you’re worried about health issues, we have doctors who will give you state-of-the-art care, free of cost. If you’re worried about finances, we’ll help you get on the path of financial independence. Just as long as you agree to practice one of a multitude of contraceptive methods (including abstinence) and you agree to participate in sex education/parenting classes. > > Where’s the evidence for this statement? > > Because here’s [evidence](https://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20071220/sex-education-works-study-shows#1) that refutes it. Fewer abortions are the greater good. Your first link says that in England kids in single families feel as good about their families and about their peer relationships. Those seem like odd measurements and are probably the result of data mining. However, even if they are true, feeling good about your family is not enough. Children of single parents have twice the odds of dropping out of high school, 2.5 the rate of teen motherhood, have worse grades, are less likely to go to college, and commit crimes at a greater rate. Hardly not any worse. There are places like you describe that me and other anti abortion voters support. They are called crisis pregnancy centers and they provide counseling and material support to young women considering abortion. Of course the abortion industry hates them and is trying to get them shut down. Studies of sex education that rely on self report are generally unreliable. The [best study](https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2016/research/sex-education-review/) about sex education effectiveness found that on measurable outcomes like STI infection rates and number of pregnancies sex education has no effect. The study was done on multiple countries and used 55,000 participants. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/34 "2019-05-28T03:42:42Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Fewer abortions are the greater good. Not necessarily. Fewer unwanted pregnancies are definitely the greater good. But requiring women to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term is not. > [@puddleglum](#): > > There are places like you describe that me and other anti abortion voters support. They are called crisis pregnancy centers and they provide counseling and material support to young women considering abortion. Mostly what they do is [lie to women](https://forward.com/life/family/408614/americas-crisis-pregnancy-centers-are-crimes-against-women/): > [@](#): > > Crisis pregnancy centers (CPCs) are anti-abortion centers that try to talk patients out of abortion through manipulative tactics. There are over 4,000 fake clinics all throughout the country, in red, blue, and purple states—outnumbering abortion providers 4 to 1. They misrepresent themselves as abortion clinics, often with vague names like “MyChoice,” but when patients come in to CPCs seeking abortions, they’re lied to, shamed, and given medical misinformation to try to stop them from obtaining an abortion. > > The CPCs’ shameless disguise as medical facilities has real consequences: patients have faced life-threatening medical emergencies and lost pregnancies because fake clinics didn’t give them accurate medical information. They promise free pregnancy tests and ultrasounds to target marginalized women, including teenagers, college students, women of color, low income women, and non-English speaking women, who are less likely to be able to access affordable healthcare. The stories of patients who were manipulated, endangered, and deceived by fake clinics are brutal. > [@puddleglum](#): > > Of course the abortion industry hates them and is trying to get them shut down. :rolleyes: There isn’t any “abortion industry”. Family planning services in general, including abortion, are mostly provided on a nonprofit basis. Nobody wants women to have unwanted pregnancies just so they might then be able to sell them an abortion: it’s an absurd business model. So-called “crisis pregnancy centers” should be exposed and shut down because they try to con women seeking an abortion into believing that they provide actual medical services, and then try to pressure them into changing their decision. If anti-abortion advocates want to make adoption services and counseling available to pregnant women, they can do that without trying to lure women in by pretending to be abortion providers. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/35 "2019-05-28T04:46:47Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Studies of sex education that rely on self report are generally unreliable. The [best study](https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2016/research/sex-education-review/) about sex education effectiveness found that on measurable outcomes like STI infection rates and number of pregnancies sex education has no effect. The study was done on multiple countries and used 55,000 participants. Interesting that the [“best study”](https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2016/research/sex-education-review/) about sex education effectiveness failed to include the United States as part of its scope of research. And you seem to have missed an important part of the study’s conclusion (bolding mine): > [@Dr Amanda Mason-Jones](#): > > As they are currently designed, sex education programmes alone probably have no effect on the number of young people infected with HIV, other STIs or the number of pregnancies, **especially if condoms and contraceptives or other health service provision are also not freely available to young people**. But God forbid that we try to reduce teen pregnancies. > [@puddleglum](#): > > There are places like you describe that me and other anti abortion voters support. They are called crisis pregnancy centers and they provide counseling and material support to young women considering abortion. Of course the abortion industry hates them and is trying to get them shut down. To backup the point made by **Kimstu** : Here are a couple of doctors on the AMA ethical website weighing in on crisis pregnancy centers. [Why Crisis Pregnancy Centers Are Legal but Unethical](https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/why-crisis-pregnancy-centers-are-legal-unethical/2018-03) > [@](#): > > They strive to give the impression that they are clinical centers, offering legitimate medical services and advice, yet they are exempt from regulatory, licensure, and credentialing oversight that apply to health care facilities. And when you can list the places that provide the services that were proposed by **monstro** , please do let us know. Because Crisis Pregnancy Centers most definitely do not offer these services, contrary to your claim. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/36 "2019-05-28T14:46:32Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Interesting that the [“best study”](https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2016/research/sex-education-review/) about sex education effectiveness failed to include the United States as part of its scope of research. And you seem to have missed an important part of the study’s conclusion (bolding mine): > > But God forbid that we try to reduce teen pregnancies. > > To backup the point made by **Kimstu** : Here are a couple of doctors on the AMA ethical website weighing in on crisis pregnancy centers. > > [Why Crisis Pregnancy Centers Are Legal but Unethical](https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/why-crisis-pregnancy-centers-are-legal-unethical/2018-03) > > And when you can list the places that provide the services that were proposed by **monstro** , please do let us know. Because Crisis Pregnancy Centers most definitely do not offer these services, contrary to your claim. It would be odd if America alone among countries had the only successful sex education program in the world. The best [study](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2135325?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) on American sex education also found no relationship between comprehensive sex education and pregnancy. Luckily condoms are ubiquitous in American and just about everyone who wants one can easily get one. I am not surprised two abortion doctors find crisis counseling centers unethical, I’m sure every industry would like to have its competitors shut down. I don’t have a comprehensive list of crisis pregnancy centers but 2 seconds of googling gave me [this](https://pregnancyhelpclinics.org/en/services) which offers free pregnancy tests, free ultrasounds, counseling about options, help with housing, free emergency contraception, and STI information. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/37 "2019-05-28T14:59:11Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Or, that the woman should not have sex, and if she does have sex, she is obligated for keeping the baby she does not want, and if she fails in that regard the state can press charges. > > I know it sounds cold, but if you look at it from the perspective where the fetus is a person, it should make sense. > > ~Max It makes sense only if we want society to look like something out of Handmaid’s Tale. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/38 "2019-05-28T15:08:34Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Studies of sex education that rely on self report are generally unreliable. The [best study](https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2016/research/sex-education-review/) about sex education effectiveness found that on measurable outcomes like STI infection rates and number of pregnancies sex education has no effect. The study was done on multiple countries and used 55,000 participants. What makes this one study you dug up from _from 1986_ that didn’t even involve the country we are talking about the best study on the topic…besides the fact that a quick going over made you think it aligned with your personal opinion? This “best study” of yours is horribly out-dated and off-topic, and you should feel embarrassed that you thought we wouldn’t check up on the validity of your cite. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/39 "2019-05-28T15:18:44Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > This is a bad argument. When I say “pro lifers are hypocrites” I **specifically mean** they are up in arms about non-sentient lumps of human tissue but don’t give a **shit** about living babies, living small children, or living young adults living in squalor. I charge that this is hypocritical and a nonsensical position only a moron could take. Or, well, someone trying to pass a law that ignores the separation of church and state. > > I don’t extend this to “well if you are pro life you should be vegan” necessarily…though to be fair, this is not a totally bad argument like you claim. A living cow or chicken is a mentally more sophisticated, complete living animal. If a pro-lifer really cares so much about a fetus they shouldn’t be ok with chowing down on a cow or sheep or other large animal that has an enormously larger brain, actual peers and memories and complex behavior, and so on. Versus a fetus that does little more than twitch occasionally as the really advanced stuff isn’t ready yet. > > As for your machinegun analogy: let’s suppose you are “pro-choice” for owning machineguns. Cool. But you support banning of body armor being sold in stores, which would be pretty damn useful if everybody has a machinegun. I would say you’re being a hypocrite and not supporting laws consistent with your own claimed position. What if a person is say “pro choice” in just about anything and everything. The only kicker to being pro anything is that you must then live with the repercussion of said choice? I dislike almost any and all things that take away choice and even more than that , I hate when the government thinks they need to come in and save all those people who made the ‘wrong’ choice(s) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/40 "2019-05-28T15:23:53Z")
I think the anti-abortion movement is generally supportive of individual responsibility. Have sex, be responsible for the child you might have, or else don’t have sex. So no they would not be in favor of taking care of other people’s children. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538.md?page=3)