# Those states banning abortions made sure to pass laws supporting single mothers, right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 26, 2019, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538 "2019-05-26T05:01:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/41 "2019-05-28T15:32:28Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I think the anti-abortion movement is generally supportive of individual responsibility. Have sex, be responsible for the child you might have, or else don’t have sex. So no they would not be in favor of taking care of other people’s children. So you justify forcing women to go through with pregnancies by making it a punishment for wanton sex? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/42 "2019-05-28T16:00:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you justify forcing women to go through with pregnancies by making it a punishment for wanton sex? What you call punishment isn’t really anything other than taking responsibility for ones own actions. So, no it isn’t “punishment” Is it “punishment” for the father if he doesn’t want the child to have to pay child support? ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/43 "2019-05-28T16:15:16Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > I don’t have a comprehensive list of crisis pregnancy centers but 2 seconds of googling gave me [this](https://pregnancyhelpclinics.org/en/services) which offers free pregnancy tests, free ultrasounds, counseling about options, help with housing, free emergency contraception, and STI information. You do realize that the link you thoughtfully provided is a website for a group of clinics in Florida which provide services for pregnant women, including education on the different types of abortion procedures available? These clinics are most definitely not crisis counseling centers, as you would have us believe. Rather, they are licensed medical clinics serving women in need of their services. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/44 "2019-05-28T16:22:38Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > What you call punishment isn’t really anything other than taking responsibility for ones own actions. So, no it isn’t “punishment” > > Is it “punishment” for the father if he doesn’t want the child to have to pay child support? Well no, because the father doesn’t have to pay child support. There are many ways that the father can avoid paying child support, many of them legal or quasi legal. And that is assuming that you know who the father is. Are you willing to require all males to submit to a DNA test in order to make sure that the fathers are all punished as the mothers are? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/45 "2019-05-28T16:31:42Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > I don’t have a comprehensive list of crisis pregnancy centers but 2 seconds of googling gave me [this](https://pregnancyhelpclinics.org/en/services) which offers free pregnancy tests, free ultrasounds, counseling about options, help with housing, free emergency contraception, and STI information. Another screwed up cite try? You might make a better argument if you _didn’t_ try to provide cites, at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/46 "2019-05-28T16:44:59Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Well no, because the father doesn’t have to pay child support. There are many ways that the father can avoid paying child support, many of them legal or quasi legal. > > And that is assuming that you know who the father is. Are you willing to require all males to submit to a DNA test in order to make sure that the fathers are all punished as the mothers are? You know who the father is? Way to dismiss all single pregnant women as “sluts”? And shouldn’t DNA testing be mandatory to determine paternity and responsibility? Or are in the crowd that believes only women should be responsible for their offspring? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/47 "2019-05-28T16:49:21Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > You do realize that the link you thoughtfully provided is a website for a group of clinics in Florida which provide services for pregnant women, including education on the different types of abortion procedures available? These clinics are most definitely not crisis counseling centers, as you would have us believe. Rather, they are licensed medical clinics serving women in need of their services. Those are pregnancy clinics which are affiliated with Heartbeat of Miami, a Christian pro life charity dedicated to helping pregnant women. They do not provide abortion referrals and are clear about that on the site. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/48 "2019-05-28T16:51:22Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Let’s say I have a 2 year old kid. I’ve decided he’s a lot more trouble than he’s worth. And, for some strange reason in my city the law says you’re allowed to strangle your kid to death before the age of 3. > > You think this is horrific and the law is horrific. Murder is wrong. But whatever. It’s within my power and my right to murder this kid, and I’m going to do it. > > Now - you’re against this, of course. Are you willing to take my kid in? Raise him as your own, feed him and clothe him and provide him with education and all his needs for the next 16 years at least? Let’s say in this case you’re not - as many people would not. Does that make you a hypocrite? Well at the very least I might try to look into what set of circumstances led these parents to feel that they needed to kill their kids and what could be done to alleviate them. Understanding of course (to extend the analogy) that whether or not I succeed in making infanticide illegal, those who feel the need to off their offspring will find a way to do so. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/49 "2019-05-28T16:54:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What makes this one study you dug up from _from 1986_ that didn’t even involve the country we are talking about the best study on the topic…besides the fact that a quick going over made you think it aligned with your personal opinion? This “best study” of yours is horribly out-dated and off-topic, and you should feel embarrassed that you thought we wouldn’t check up on the validity of your cite. If you read the study it was published in 2016 and is the only review to have both a huge sample and relied on actual biological outcomes and not self reports which are notoriously unreliable. If you can’t even get the date of study right perhaps you should refrain from comment on it. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/50 "2019-05-28T17:28:47Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > You know who the father is? Way to dismiss all single pregnant women as “sluts”? And shouldn’t DNA testing be mandatory to determine paternity and responsibility? Or are in the crowd that believes only women should be responsible for their offspring? By _you_ I was specifically talking about the person that is wishing to implement or enforce the policies. Any dismissal of women as “sluts” is something that you have fabricated from whole cloth. I was pointing out to the poster that was trying to claim that paying child support is as much of a burden as bearing a child that even that small responsibility can easily be dismissed by the “father”. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/51 "2019-05-28T18:06:22Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Well no, because the father doesn’t have to pay child support. There are many ways that the father can avoid paying child support, many of them legal or quasi legal. > > And that is assuming that you know who the father is. Are you willing to require all males to submit to a DNA test in order to make sure that the fathers are all punished as the mothers are? All fathers have a requirement to pay child support. End Whether or not the mother or the state can collect it is up in the air I suppose. But the question was more about choice than “punishing” anyone. If a father doesn’t want the child, why do we have punitive laws requiring payment from him? If the mother doesn’t want the child, she can abort, give up for adoption or have, the baby. Where is the father’s choice? They are both responsible for the act that they committed together. They both should deal with the repercussions as they see fit to. Giving them both a choice is the only right thing to do, yet … ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/52 "2019-05-28T18:09:55Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > All fathers have a requirement to pay child support. End > Whether or not the mother or the state can collect it is up in the air I suppose. > > But the question was more about choice than “punishing” anyone. > If a father doesn’t want the child, why do we have punitive laws requiring payment from him? If the mother doesn’t want the child, she can abort, give up for adoption or have, the baby. Where is the father’s choice? > > They are both responsible for the act that they committed together. They both should deal with the repercussions as they see fit to. Giving them both a choice is the only right thing to do, yet … So the tie should go to the father? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/53 "2019-05-28T18:14:39Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > All fathers have a requirement to pay child support. End > Whether or not the mother or the state can collect it is up in the air I suppose. > > But the question was more about choice than “punishing” anyone. > If a father doesn’t want the child, why do we have punitive laws requiring payment from him? If the mother doesn’t want the child, she can abort, give up for adoption or have, the baby. Where is the father’s choice? Women can give a baby up for adoption without the consent of the father? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/54 "2019-05-28T18:19:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So the tie should go to the father? I wouldn’t say that but if her ultimate desire is to have the baby and his is not, she should not expect 18 years of support from him. She has all the information to decide on her own whether or not she wants to have the baby. Regardless, if there is agreement on that first point (about giving the father a choice), all the rest could get figured out. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/55 "2019-05-28T18:21:50Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Women can give a baby up for adoption without the consent of the father? He can only complain if he has established paternity. Then he would have a choice and she would be on the hook for support. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/56 "2019-05-28T18:25:08Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > All fathers have a requirement to pay child support. End Really? Tell that to my dead-beat ex-brother in law. He doesn’t have a job specifically so that he doesn’t have to pay child support. > [@](#): > > Whether or not the mother or the state can collect it is up in the air I suppose. If you are in agreement that child support collection is “up in the air”, then I will agree. The father has an easy time abandoning his responsibility. > [@](#): > > But the question was more about choice than “punishing” anyone. You compared child support with bearing a child. > [@](#): > > If a father doesn’t want the child, why do we have punitive laws requiring payment from him? If the mother doesn’t want the child, she can abort, give up for adoption or have, the baby. Where is the father’s choice? There’s some men from the MRA here to talk to you, they seem interested in subscribing to your newsletter. > [@](#): > > They are both responsible for the act that they committed together. They both should deal with the repercussions as they see fit to. Giving them both a choice is the only right thing to do, yet … So, you are equating bearing and birthing a child to the easily dismissed and loosely enforced farce that is child support? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/57 "2019-05-28T18:26:11Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I wouldn’t say that but if her ultimate desire is to have the baby and his is not, she should not expect 18 years of support from him. She has all the information to decide on her own whether or not she wants to have the baby. > Regardless, if there is agreement on that first point (about giving the father a choice), all the rest could get figured out. He can give up his parental rights and not have to pay child support. Can she give up her parental rights and not have to bear the child? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/58 "2019-05-28T18:37:37Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > He can give up his parental rights and not have to pay child support. Can she give up her parental rights and not have to bear the child? Are you asking me if I believe abortion is a just thing? I thought I had established that I am all about choice, so yes, I do. She can ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/59 "2019-05-28T19:37:09Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Are you asking me if I believe abortion is a just thing? > I thought I had established that I am all about choice, so yes, I do. > She can Personally, I am of the opinion that the child can be aborted, or it can be put up for adoption. If it is put up for adoption, then the father should get the right to first refusal. If the father wants to be a part of the child’s life, then he should pay child support, if he doesn’t, then he shouldn’t have to, same as with the woman. The father could raise the child with no involvement from the woman, as well. Either way, the child and whoever chooses to raise that child should get the support that they need. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538/60 "2019-05-28T20:00:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Personally, I am of the opinion that the child can be aborted, or it can be put up for adoption. If it is put up for adoption, then the father should get the right to first refusal. > > If the father wants to be a part of the child’s life, then he should pay child support, if he doesn’t, then he shouldn’t have to, same as with the woman. The father could raise the child with no involvement from the woman, as well. > > Either way, the child and whoever chooses to raise that child should get the support that they need. I agree with this pretty whole, except the last line. Support they need from whom? I was taught at an early age, if you can’t take care of something, you don’t need that something. (Dog, horse, car, baby) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-states-banning-abortions-made-sure-to-pass-laws-supporting-single-mothers-right/834538.md?page=4)