# Those Wacky Mormons and rebaptising (Not a repeat...its a whole new can of worms) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581 "2003-12-07T18:41:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/41 "2003-12-08T02:49:45Z")
If instead of **Dunk** just visualize **Cannonballing** into the water. It’s funner. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/42 "2003-12-08T02:49:54Z")
That’s incredibly picky. There is nothing disrespectful about referring to someone who has been dunked in water as having been “dunked in water.” It’s plain English. What word or wording would you prefer? ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/43 "2003-12-08T02:51:38Z")
Wow, I’ve never seen a well-respected _dictionary_, of all things, accused of bias before. Paranoid much? ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/44 "2003-12-08T03:04:04Z")
So if someone acts like me, even though they aren’t me and I’ve been dead for years, and that person who says they are me, but isn’t, gets **dunked** in water then my soul gets a chance to choose something in the afterlife. But, if no one actually stands in my place and gets **dunked** then there is no hope. What the hell is that? Why not just have a person stand in and say “I now represent every person that has ever been or will be born” **dunk** them, and be done? Do you think god is going to come down and ask for all your lists of names? Unbloodylikely. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/45 "2003-12-08T03:11:01Z")
**emarkp** , maybe you ought to quit while you’re ahead. The etymology of “dunk” goes back to the Old High German _dunke_, and entered the English language by way of the Pennsylvania Dutch (German Baptist Brethren) at the beginning of the eighteenth century. It was used exclusively to refer to the baptismal rite for a _long_ time before it was ever applied to anything as mundane as a doughnut. So if you are concerned with the propriety of the terminology, find some other word to describe immersion in coffee or taking a ball to the hoop. People are dunked at baptism. Unless they’re from one of those sects that use sprinkles. (Which brings us back to deep-fried doughy snacks. Wanna make something of it?) ---
**Author:** ![Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tyrrell_mcallister/32/16772_2.png) [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tyrrell_McAllister)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/46 "2003-12-08T03:20:36Z")
**kung fu lola** wrote: > [@](#): > > Wow, I’ve never seen a well-respected _dictionary_, of all things, accused of bias before. As far as I can see, you still haven’t. **Rhum Runner** , no more unlikely than any other religion’s claims on how God goes about dispencing heaven and hell. Mormons are no more “wacky” than the vast majority of Americans in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/47 "2003-12-08T03:33:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by emarkp \* > > \*\*Look in other dictionaries and some don’t list people as being dunked. Even in this case the primary definition has to do with food. A bit (if I can use the word) disrespectful of what we consider to be a sacred ordinance. \*\* Holy smokes, this is rich! Here you are baptising the souls of Jews who were murdered in the holocaust into your Jesus-believing faith and you take offense at the use of the word ‘dunk’? We don’t want, like or appreciate your door-to-door missionary crap while we’re alive on earth. What in heaven’s name makes you think we’d have any interest in it once we’re dead? Can you even begin to fathom any group of people more likely to be willing to convert to whatever faith would save them from torture, torment and gruesome death, _if they were so inclined to reject their own_, than the Jews of the holocaust? And yet, they held steadfastly to their convictions and their faith! Does that tell you nothing? HOW DARE YOU TRY TO DESECRATE THEIR SOULS WITH YOUR CRAP?! The more I think about this, the more incensed I become. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/48 "2003-12-08T03:42:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Larry Mudd \* > **emarkp** , maybe you ought to quit while you’re ahead. > > The etymology of “dunk” goes back to the Old High German _dunke_, and entered the English language by way of the Pennsylvania Dutch (German Baptist Brethren) at the beginning of the eighteenth century. It was used exclusively to refer to the baptismal rite for a _long_ time before it was ever applied to anything as mundane as a doughnut. That is absolutely fascinating. I really had no idea. Current usage that I’ve seen tends more to refer to things rather than people, or people in a humorous context. I’ll take your advice and retract my objection to the word. It was simply jarring to read. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/49 "2003-12-08T03:44:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > So which descendants get to decide how the ancestors are treated? I am curious. I am unaware with any laws or customs outside of LDS with respect to this. The LDS church asks members to focus on their own direct ancestors for the purpose of proxy ordinances. We are encouraged to research our family history as much as we can, and to keep accurate records while we are living (including regular journals, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tyrrell_mcallister/32/16772_2.png) [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tyrrell_McAllister)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/50 "2003-12-08T03:48:10Z")
**Shayna** , the Holocaust wasn’t like the Inquisition. The Nazis didn’t let anyone go just for converting. Being killed in the Holocaust was not a measure of the strength of your religious faith. It was a measure of whether the Nazis thought you were ethnically Jewish (or gay or romani or …) ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/51 "2003-12-08T03:58:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kung fu lola \* > No one really knows what happens after we die, after all. What if there isn’t One True God, but if all religions are true, and what the Mormons are doing is actually wreaking havoc in the afterlife? What then? > > Or, more importantly, (and likely than Heavenly Havoc), what if it _does_ make a difference to the dead? If the afterlife is so screwed up that Mormons performing baptism for you will affect your future against your will, we’re all screwed. ---
**Author:** ![DarkPrince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@DarkPrince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarkPrince)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/52 "2003-12-08T04:00:00Z")
Y’know, I really don’t see what’s so bad about this. Visiting door-to-door to extol the virtues of my all-powerful scrote wasn’t working, so for years I’ve been going to cemeteries, writing down the names of people and baptizing them into the Church of DarkPrince’s Hairy Ballsack. This consists of getting totally drunk on vodka, then hoarsely yelling their name out while dunking the wrinkled sacraments into a sinkful of ice-cold water. Though the other people in the train station restroom give me odd looks, I haven’t received any complaints from the deceased yet, so they MUST be happier now that they’re in the Church of the Shaggy Teabag. Anyone want some pamphlets? Anyone? How about you there in the back covering your child’s eyes. No? Well then, I guess I’ll see you all Sunday at ungodlyhourofthemorning o’clock. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/53 "2003-12-08T04:10:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by emarkp \* > \*\*Oh and **fetus**? That was funny. \*\* Thank you. I’ll be sure to spare your brain. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/54 "2003-12-08T04:37:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Siege \* > This is one aspect of the Church of Latter-Day Saints which bothers me. If you’re going to use the full name of the church (instead of simply ‘Mormon’) I’d be grateful if you didn’t drop Christ out of it. It’s The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (And I know no disrespect is intended, so please take this as gentle correction). > [@](#): > > To me, baptizing me or anyone else into a religion we have not chosen, whether we heard of it or not, after we have died goes against that basic respect. I’ll address the issue of respect, since that seems to be the most used word in this thread. However, please understand that even we don’t believe that when performing the a proxy baptism that we’re baptizing anyone “into” our church. We hope they will accept it, but we do not know, nor do we claim to generally know whether an individual has accepted anything. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/55 "2003-12-08T04:42:38Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by emarkp_ > So Father Joseph just believes that people who aren’t baptized here on Earth are damned. That’s much better. Nice way to misrepresent Orthodox belief. The Orthodox Church teaches that it is the only _sure_ way to salvation, and that everything outside the Church is a big question mark. Those who die outside the Church will be judged by God as He sees fit, and the Church makes no pronouncement on their ultimate fate. We can pray that God will have mercy on them, but any idea of baptism for the dead is, for the Orthodox, complete nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/56 "2003-12-08T04:46:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > If you look closely,I amnot Monty, but I believe someone who is totally evil is called a “son of perdition” and goes to the bad place. > You have to be really bad for this, though. Rico is basically correct about this. Sons of perdition include the devil and his angels (those who followed him) and [others who reject God and Christ](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/76/30-39#30) while having a perfect knowledge of the truth. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/57 "2003-12-08T04:54:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yBeayf \* > Nice way to misrepresent Orthodox belief. The Orthodox Church teaches that it is the only _sure_ way to salvation, and that everything outside the Church is a big question mark. Those who die outside the Church will be judged by God as He sees fit, and the Church makes no pronouncement on their ultimate fate. We can pray that God will have mercy on them, but any idea of baptism for the dead is, for the Orthodox, complete nonsense. My apologies for misrepresenting the Orthodox position. I consider myself corrected. It is true that I have spent less time understanding Orthodoxy than other groups under the umbrella of Christianity. Most of my anecdotal evidence of Russian Orthodoxy comes from my brother-in-law. I know that Mormon baptism isn’t good enough for _them_. But then Russian Orthodox baptism wasn’t Russian Orthodox enough for my BIL. He had to be baptized again when he was in Russia to marry his wife in her church. ---
**Author:** ![Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glory)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/58 "2003-12-08T04:54:52Z")
Spiritual rape. Where can I sign up to NEVER be baptized after my death? I find it hugely insulting and incredibly distrubing. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/59 "2003-12-08T05:03:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > It is curious, though, that evidently because of this doctrine (and someone will please correct me if I’m wrong:)) one does not have to want to be saved (or what LDS call it) to be baptized. I’m probably misunderstanding it, though. I mean, an atheist baptized Mormon after death … how exactly would that be worked out in the LDS theological system? That is incorrect. Being dunked (better **Larry Mudd**? :)) accomplishes nothing if there isn’t sincere belief accompanying it. Which is why the proxy ordinance is not efficacious if the departed do not desire it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581/60 "2003-12-08T05:06:20Z")
What I want to know is, if they’re just doing it so they’ll have a chance, why can’t GOD just give them that chance, whether someone has done the baptism or not? I do appreciate the genealogical work the Mormon church does. However, the baptism of the dead-EVEN IF ONE CAN REJECT IT, still bothers me. In the past, I have read of Catholic saints and martyrs being baptised and this does NOT sit well with me. If they were wrong in life, surely GOD will give them the chance without someone making a big ceremony? And are the proxy baptism records kept separate from the list of members or are they just listed as regular members? Because if not, then that’s really disrespectful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-wacky-mormons-and-rebaptising-not-a-repeat-its-a-whole-new-can-of-worms/217581.md?page=4)