# Those who believe in climate change: how should people be raising/advising kids? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 10, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770 "2018-10-10T19:27:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/21 "2018-10-11T14:08:13Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > This whole “personal responsibility” argument is a smokescreen. It’s massive companies that are fucking things up. > > [Just 100 companies responsible for 71% of global emissions, study says | Guardian sustainable business | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change) > > So teach your kids that unbridled capitalism is evil. You can’t expect companies to put environment before profit. Any company that does will be at a financial disadvantage. It’s the government’s responsibility to level the playing field and force all companies to adhere to a certain level of environmental protection. And it’s the voters’ responsibility to elect a government that does that. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/22 "2018-10-11T14:37:45Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > This whole “personal responsibility” argument is a smokescreen. It’s massive companies that are fucking things up. > > [Just 100 companies responsible for 71% of global emissions, study says | Guardian sustainable business | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change) > > So teach your kids that unbridled capitalism is evil. The wast majority of those are oil companies. Their only possible contribution to reduce emissions would be to cease existing, and the demand for oil and political will to continue extracting it would ensure someone else would take their place. We could do the same for huge companies that aren’t oil producers as well, such as Apple. Which brings us full circle, sure, unbridled capitalism is evil, but unbridled capitalism is a choice mainly made in democratic nations, and it thrives only due to the consumers of those nations. So everyone does have a personal responsibility as a consumer and as a voter. Sure, it might seem like CEOs and presidents have all the power, but theirs is a derived power that is just transferred to someone doing the same thing, unless people take personal responsibility for the actions the give them the power. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/23 "2018-10-11T14:53:47Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Thanks for the heads up. I know shit about keeping bees happy and all the clues I can get are valuable. As I said, though, it’s a bit in the future and I have time to get most of the details right before releasing the bees into paradise/hell (depending on how much I get right). Look for my IMHO thread, coming in 2023. 🙂 I’m also curious about totally wild indigenous bee species which might be lower maintenance and not have quite the dietary requirements of a hive of Eurobees. It’s more the colony size of European honey bees than their nutritional requirements that’s the problem, at the height of the season, they can have 60,000 bees in one hive. That’s a lot of tiny mouths to feed. Of course, that’s also a large part of why they’re so valuable for field scale pollination. Some commercial greenhouses use other bee species, with colony sizes in the hundreds, for crop pollination, but I’m not aware of any attempts to find a species suitable for domestic size greenhouses. I’d guess you’d want only 10-20 or so bees at a time if they’re wholly restricted, but as small greenhouses generally don’t have air con systems, most people wind up leaving the door open for ventilation anyway, so there’s maybe not much point. Encouraging native bee species is a good plan regardless, they’re in decline too, but we know a lot less about why, or what role they play in ecosystem management. [/bee hijack] ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/24 "2018-10-11T15:33:31Z")
I’m not going to raise them too much differently. We live in West Virginia, projected to get warmer and wetter. Longer growing seasons, less snow, possible droughts in mid-summer, but nothing serious. We’ll lose some species and gain others. Our worst effects are likely to be our ski resorts becoming unprofitable and a longer allergy season. I don’t want to be flippant, but we’re in better shape than most places. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/25 "2018-10-11T19:34:01Z")
> [@naita](#): > > sure, unbridled capitalism is evil, but unbridled capitalism is a choice mainly made in democratic nations, and it thrives only due to the consumers of those nations. So everyone does have a personal responsibility as a consumer and as a voter. > > Sure, it might seem like CEOs and presidents have all the power, but theirs is a derived power that is just transferred to someone doing the same thing, unless people take personal responsibility for the actions the give them the power. You’re talking like bribes and lobbying don’t exist. Any child knows that if all the media is in the hands of the government the country is fucked. Somehow, the media being in the hands of the rich and powerful seems to be no cause for alarm. We’re not living in a perfect democracy. Yelling “the people have brought this upon themselves!” is bull. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/26 "2018-10-11T19:43:58Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > However, I’m going to step in and stop this hijack. Take it to another thread or the Pit, but we **will not** debate the “productivity or value” of those who gravitate to the arts in this thread. Thank you. I had no intention of letting **WOOKINPANUB** hijack (I’m not sure he actually _did_ hijack). To be clear, you might suggest “liberal arts” in addition to “the arts” as off limits, as I specifically mentioned that and you do seem to be taking exception to it for some reason. Anyway, **Leaper** , what do you mean by “if we’re boned”? For example, I said I don’t believe we’re “boned,” but then looking at **senoy** ’s response, I get the idea that he thinks some people will be boned, but he won’t due to the geographical location. To me, boned means the world is destroyed, and **senoy** seems to think some not small part of the world will be boned in that sense, but he’ll be safe in his region. To some people, boned might simply mean we have to divert energy and resources to work around any effects of ecological change. **This distinction** is important to teach to the kids. Instead of “boned,” I suggest we more carefully define our terms. Things will die. People will be displaced. Maybe **senoy** ’s children will have to pay triple for bananas as a result. Beachfront property in Fresno will be worth a lot. How does this affect the displaced? How does this affect the rest of us? The world is a large, complex place, and effects won’t be localized to a hill in West Virgina. (Thank you, **senoy** , I’m not picking on you, but you made a great example of the complexity of the topic.) If you believe the world will end, then you will teach your children to scream at the tops of their voices to make some change now! If you don’t believe the world will end, then you will teach your children to understand the causes, mitigations, effects, and help them understand the interconnectedness of all things, enabling them to deal effectively with their reality rather than be victims of it. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/27 "2018-10-11T20:05:58Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > You’re talking like bribes and lobbying don’t exist. Any child knows that if all the media is in the hands of the government the country is fucked. Somehow, the media being in the hands of the rich and powerful seems to be no cause for alarm. > > We’re not living in a perfect democracy. Yelling “the people have brought this upon themselves!” is bull. I haven’t said or even implied that the system is perfect. But in our “better than most” democracies people have influence on how government works, they have a choice in media to consume, and they choose to reelect the politicians that cater to the rich and suck the lobbyist teat, they choose to watch the most biased media, and they choose to continue wasteful behavior. People in “better than most” democracies _have_ brought this upon themselves, by continuing to support the makers of big decisions who make things easier and cheaper, over the ones that would curb consumption and pollution. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/28 "2018-10-11T20:52:49Z")
There are lots of things which can go wrong in life. There can be a major financial/economic mess as in 2007-2009 where you lose your job and can’t find another another one for years. Anyone can suffer a major disability and can no longer work. You need many of the same type responses for these as for climate change: live frugally, save, learn how to fix things yourself, be adaptable… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/29 "2018-10-11T21:20:52Z")
> [@naita](#): > > I haven’t said or even implied that the system is perfect. But in our “better than most” democracies people have influence on how government works, they have a choice in media to consume, and they choose to reelect the politicians that cater to the rich and suck the lobbyist teat, they choose to watch the most biased media, and they choose to continue wasteful behavior. > > People in “better than most” democracies _have_ brought this upon themselves, by continuing to support the makers of big decisions who make things easier and cheaper, over the ones that would curb consumption and pollution. It’s WAY easier to blame capitalism or Big Evil Corporations(tm…arr), etc etc, blah blah Marx when you don’t get that you are part of the aggregate market. It’s an easy cop out. It’s all THEIR fault, and if only they weren’t so evil or if we had a good communist/socialist government with a command economy as Marx intended we wouldn’t be in this mess, blah blah blah Lennon. Thing is, it doesn’t really work that way, and while I think that the US government et al has done a lot to leverage Big Oil and Big Auto, it’s just giving a nudge to something that was and is still happening naturally because of market forces. We will have a major change in the market, and corporations will jump on the bandwagon when those market forces change. We are seeing that happening right now, today…and faster than I, personally, thought would happen. It’s why this gloom and doom stuff is so odd. We might see a paradigm shift in our (my, and I’m freaking old) lifetimes. It took whales becoming extremely rare for us to change directions last time, and trees become scarce in some parts for us to switch to coal, and it will take innovation and market forces before it happens this time. Sadly, we’ll already be at the point where we will have significantly changed the climate by then. But we won’t be ‘boned’ in any sense…it will just be more of what we saw this week in Florida happening more frequently than it did 100 years ago. More droughts, more floods. But that’s stuff we can get by. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/30 "2018-10-11T21:22:39Z")
I don’t think anyone should have children now, no. But I don’t give advice to people about stuff like that, except, of course, on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/31 "2018-10-11T21:30:11Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > I don’t think anyone should have children now, no. > > But I don’t give advice to people about stuff like that, except, of course, on the internet. Ironically, this trend is already happening, and people are, indeed, having less children across the globe. In many countries they are below replacement level already, and many more are on the cusp, or only above it due to immigration (such as the US). I figure that, like our population, this issue is going to self correct at some point. As countries become more wealthy and the technology becomes more available and more capable, we are going to see a shift away from fossil fuels and towards much more green tech. Corporations aren’t preventing the masses from buying solar panels or battery powered cars, the market is. But that gap is closing and fairly soon we might see a cross over, where as many or more electric cars are being bought than ICE vehicles, with eventually ICE cars being relegated to whale oil lamps. And when we see self-driving AI that might be a whole 'nother shift, with the possibility that people won’t even need or, more importantly want their own vehicle. Now, if only we figure out fusion, or figure out how to get folks to not be terrified of fission… ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/32 "2018-10-11T21:55:07Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I’m asking this seriously, especially of the people who think we’re boned as far as climate goes. Don’t have any kids or nieces or second or third cousins? Best friend’s kid asks your opinion. Don’t have any friends? Shut up and answer the question; don’t fight the hypothetical, because it’s not the point. There is no such thing as not believing in climate change. People who say they don’t are lying. So the question is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/33 "2018-10-11T22:05:11Z")
Don’t have kids. And if you do, teach them to swim early. Maybe one generation will grow some gills. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/34 "2018-10-11T22:11:40Z")
> [@XT](#): > > It’s WAY easier to blame capitalism or Big Evil Corporations(tm…arr), etc etc, blah blah Marx Like I said; the massive damage done to the environment (You know, the subject of this thread) is by businesses, not by individuals. > [@](#): > > it will take innovation and market forces [None of the world’s top industries would be profitable if they paid for the natural capital they use](https://grist.org/business-technology/none-of-the-worlds-top-industries-would-be-profitable-if-they-paid-for-the-natural-capital-they-use/). Now THAT is unbridled capitalism. Or, stuff like this: [Goldman Sachs claiming that actually curing people is “not a sustainable business model”.](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/goldman-asks-is-curing-patients-a-sustainable-business-model.html) But hey, keep on believing the free market will solve everything. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/35 "2018-10-11T22:15:01Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > Like I said; the massive damage done to the environment (You know, the subject of this thread) is by businesses, not by individuals. > > [None of the world’s top industries would be profitable if they paid for the natural capital they use](https://grist.org/business-technology/none-of-the-worlds-top-industries-would-be-profitable-if-they-paid-for-the-natural-capital-they-use/). Now THAT is unbridled capitalism. Or, stuff like this: [Goldman Sachs claiming that actually curing people is “not a sustainable business model”.](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/goldman-asks-is-curing-patients-a-sustainable-business-model.html) > > But hey, keep on believing the free market will solve everything. And those companies…are they doing that damage for their own health? Or perhaps for fun? Shits and giggles? But hey, keep thinking that it has nothing to do with you, that’s it’s all capitalism or Big Evil Corporation Incs. fault, oh, and that this is going to be solved by unicorn wishes and dragon tears…or is it dragon wishes and unicorn tears? I always get those mixed up… ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/36 "2018-10-11T22:20:57Z")
Well, this thread has been useless. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/37 "2018-10-11T22:21:57Z")
Ideally with the following. Drive an electric car Use solar panels and batteries for your home Eat a vegetarian diet, or eat lab grown meat (animal meat is a major source of climate change, now watch me eat this pepperoni pizza) Vote for whatever party takes climate change seriously Divest yourself from companies that cause climate change ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/38 "2018-10-11T22:22:47Z")
Raising them to have a much more veg-based diet ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/39 "2018-10-11T22:23:26Z")
Neither my brother nor I follow the Party Line (capitalization deliberate) regarding climate change; we both believe it exists (duh - it always has) but how much of it is caused by human behavior is debatable. However, that does not mean that we are off the hook regarding the proper care of our planet and its resources; I don’t have kids, but he does, and that’s what he and his wife, who feels the same way, have taught them. FWIW, our dad has always taught us (my sister too) not to Follow The Party Line about the JFK assassination either, so that may be where our critical thinking skills come from. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770/40 "2018-10-11T23:29:14Z")
> [@XT](#): > > And those companies…are they doing that damage for their own health? Or perhaps for fun? Shits and giggles? But hey, keep thinking that it has nothing to do with you, that’s it’s all capitalism or Big Evil Corporation Incs. fault, oh, and that this is going to be solved by unicorn wishes and dragon tears…or is it dragon wishes and unicorn tears? I always get those mixed up… Not for therr own health - but for their own wealth. Or the wealth of the execs. The bottom line looks a lot better when you dump costs on the public at large. Why do you think the companies that dumped waste into rivers did it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-believe-in-climate-change-how-should-people-be-raising-advising-kids/822770.md?page=3)