# Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Cite? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 14, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749 "2008-11-14T19:14:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/1 "2008-11-14T19:14:12Z")
What are concrete examples where someone unlearned in history repeated a mistake of the past? The first example that springs to mind is Hitler’s Operation Barbarossa: but Hitler was presumably quite cognizant of Napoleon’s failure to conquer Moscow yet invaded anyway. In fact, he was _so_ frantic to avoid Napoleon’s specific tactical mistakes (“don’t invade Russia in the winter”) that he made other, bigger mistakes (“make sure your army is prepared with winter gear, just in case” evidently escaped him). I’m sure that the aphorism in the title could be found true in billions of tiny ways (“I told you that plate was hot”), but I’m speaking of the broader strokes of actual history. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/2 "2008-11-14T19:20:52Z")
Well, the lessons of 'Nam that had been taken to heart during the first Gulf war seemed to have been forgotten in the second. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/3 "2008-11-14T19:21:42Z")
For reference: “Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. **Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.** In the first stage of life the mind is frivolous and easily distracted, it misses progress by failing in consecutiveness and persistence. This is the condition of children and barbarians, in which instinct has learned nothing from experience.” George Santayana, _The Life of Reason, Volume 1_, 1905 ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/4 "2008-11-14T19:23:09Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Well, the lessons of 'Nam that had been taken to heart during the first Gulf war seemed to have been forgotten in the second. There are those who would say that the lessons of Korea were ignored in Nam. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/5 "2008-11-14T19:29:30Z")
It’s easier to invade Afghanistan than it is to truly conquer and pacify it. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/6 "2008-11-14T19:46:51Z")
Economic crashes following insane speculation and blind optimism seem to happen over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/7 "2008-11-14T20:12:48Z")
The big problem is that history is full of lessons and you’re never really sure which one applies to the present. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/8 "2008-11-14T20:19:47Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Economic crashes following insane speculation and blind optimism seem to happen over and over. Yes, speculative economic bubbles happen over and over - but generally not because the people involved don’t “remember” past bubbles. Investors just assume that the current run-up isn’t a bubble (or that they can get out in time - there’s always another sucker). The quote in question is true as far as it goes. If you truly had never heard of a speculative bubble (or that multiple military leaders have failed conquering Russia in winter) you would be likely to make the same mistake. However, mere knowledge of history is clearly not enough - you also have to be able to accurately analogize the current situation with some historical precedent. This is exceedingly difficult… Speaking of Iraq, would could also compare and contrast the current occupation with the British colonial experience there. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/9 "2008-11-14T20:28:06Z")
Vietnam strategy was generally based on the assumption that Ho Chi Minh = Hitler. It was also influenced by the Soviet takeover of eastern Europe after WWII (which was the basis of the Domino Theory). ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/10 "2008-11-14T20:36:11Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Speaking of Iraq, would could also compare and contrast the current occupation with the British colonial experience there. Or, for that matter, to the English attempts to pacify Wales. Or Rome’s attempt to pacify England itself. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/11 "2008-11-14T20:42:09Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Or, for that matter, to the English attempts to pacify Wales. Or Rome’s attempt to pacify England itself. Actually both the English attempts to pacify Wales and Rome’s to pacify England were major success stories. Wales, apart from fringe groups, has been quiescent sice Owen Glendower in the 14th century, and Rome broke the back of British resistance with the defeat of Boudicca and the colony was quiet, save for Roman generals using it as a base for imperial ambitions, until Rome withdrew in the fifth century. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/12 "2008-11-14T20:51:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The big problem is that history is full of lessons and you’re never really sure which one applies to the present. “This,” as they say on another website. The other big problem is that all situations (of war, economy, peacetime, etc.) are slightly different, and attempting to apply the same types of historical lesson to them all is an invitation to disaster. What worked once is not guaranteed to work again. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/13 "2008-11-14T21:02:53Z")
Look at your own personal life. I guarantee every mistake you’ve ever made as an adult is the result of not learning from, remembering, or understanding your personal experiences, which are your personal history. The world is just the result of many individuals and their lack of learning. Or occasionally the reverse. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/14 "2008-11-14T21:06:09Z")
Actually, those who forget the pasta are doomed to reheat it. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/15 "2008-11-14T21:13:31Z")
My 5-year old used a bad word and got punished. The next day the same thing happened. If only he had read more Santayana. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/16 "2008-11-14T21:17:22Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Actually both the English attempts to pacify Wales and Rome’s to pacify England were major success stories. Therefore, one could say, those who followed after failed to learn from them. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/17 "2008-11-14T21:19:03Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Look at your own personal life. I already said that in small ways the aphorism could be considered true. I’m looking for concrete examples from history on the scale of Barbarossa. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/18 "2008-11-14T21:46:16Z")
1.) I used to have a book that pointed out many similarities between Napoleon’s problems trying to invade Russia and Hitler’s. Apparently there were some very surprising similarities, the the order of the similarities between the Lincoln and JFK assasination. Very likely many of them were just as significant (that is, not very). 2.) arguably another similarity is that both Napoleon and Hitler wrere unable to invade England, and this caused both of them immense problems. You can’t exactly say that Hitler didn’t learn from previous experience – he certainly tried to bring England down _without_ invading, using first bombers and then the V-1 and V-2 missiles. But he might’ve done better to ignore Russia and make a more traditional try for England. 3.) Read Machiavelli’s **The Prince**. Machiavelli cites multiple examples of people at different times facing the same problem, some of them succeeding and some failing. I am awed and humbled by Machiavelli’s knowledge of history, because I’ve never heard of most of the people he cites, from ancient history and the history of his time. If there’s one guy who DID learn from history, it was Machiavelli. And he highlights the main reason, I think, that people DON’T learn from history – most people don’t know enough histoy in the first place to see the parallels when they do arise. 4.) which brings up yet another point. Machiavelli had a huge posthumous influence, but, like Confucius, not an awful lot during his life. Which ilustrates the converse state,ment, also true: “Those who cannot Repeat History are Condemned only to Remember it.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/19 "2008-11-14T23:07:02Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > I already said that in small ways the aphorism could be considered true. > > I’m looking for concrete examples from history on the scale of Barbarossa. I’m just saying that anything you look at can and will be an example of this. Anything. The current financial situation. Prop 8 in California. World War II. The failure of center cities. The revival of center cities. The airline industry. Rap music. The aphorism is always applicable as long as humans are in the equation. That’s an inevitable consequence of humans acting like humans as individuals. Yes, it does somewhat weaken the appeal by making it so broad and universal. My take on it, however, is that nothing can be properly understood without an appreciation of the history and the context of the event, and that’s a truism that many people do forget and ignore. Over and over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749/20 "2008-11-14T23:15:32Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Yes, it does somewhat weaken the appeal by making it so broad and universal. This is my particular complaint, here: you can say of nearly **any** war that “you didn’t learn the lesson of history.” It’s rarely illustrated so boldly as Barbarossa. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-cannot-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it-cite/472749.md?page=2)