# Those who question depend on those who do not question. Discuss? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-question-depend-on-those-who-do-not-question-discuss/560462 "2010-11-12T18:59:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-question-depend-on-those-who-do-not-question-discuss/560462/1 "2010-11-12T18:59:30Z")
In the wake of Veterans Day, I will take the small risk of prodding a bit at the philosophical foundations of the idea that freedom can only be preserved by those who give up their own. Please, let’s _not_ turn this into the series of unrelated anecdotes typical of military-related threads, or the historical mudball fight typical of discussions about politics or geopolitics. What I hope we can examine is the _abstract principle_ that freedom isn’t free. Enough people have died for it that we really owe it to them as well as to ourselves. Some potential difficulties: - What _is_ the price of freedom? Jefferson said it is eternal vigilance. What did that mean to people of his era? What might it mean to ours? - Is it necessary, on some level, that freedom be defended by people who don’t practice it _at all?_ For example, autocrats or tyrants? The military seems to need them on a basic level. What might be the implications for society at large? - Has economic freedom taken on the same “unfree” characteristic? Is this fallacious or not? - When we say freedom isn’t free, what kind of freedom are we usually talking about? Is it a time to question the idea, or is that, in itself, a kind of dishonor to those who have sacrificed? ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-question-depend-on-those-who-do-not-question-discuss/560462/2 "2010-11-12T19:12:08Z")
I’m probably not going to argue much in this thread, but please note that “free” has a double meaning in English; “free” as in “freedom” and “free” as in “free of cost/gratis”. “Freedom isn’t free” as I take it means “freedom comes at a cost”. The difference is usually clear, but confusing them makes it much harder to discuss these issues. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-question-depend-on-those-who-do-not-question-discuss/560462/3 "2010-11-12T19:17:13Z")
Good point. Political and rhetorical advantages can also be had from that confusion, so of course it persists. I’m thinking I should have titled this thread \*\*“Freedom Isn’t Free.” Discuss? \*\*Questioning is just an _exercise_ of freedom. You can question an idea even when no one’s there to defend it. Mods: any way to change the header? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-question-depend-on-those-who-do-not-question-discuss/560462/4 "2010-11-12T19:56:23Z")
Better yet: please close the thread and I’ll repost it under the new header. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-question-depend-on-those-who-do-not-question-discuss/560462/5 "2010-11-12T20:31:48Z")
Soldiers don’t inherently defend freedom, and soldiers who don’t question their orders emphatically do not defend freedom. To the extent that any single profession deserves credit for defending freedom, it’s journalists. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-question-depend-on-those-who-do-not-question-discuss/560462/6 "2010-11-12T23:32:27Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Better yet: please close the thread and I’ll repost it under the new header. The new thread is [“Freedom isn’t free” Discuss?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=585372) This thread is closed.