# Those who think Muslims aren't Americans **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 8, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188 "2010-01-08T18:54:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/121 "2010-01-09T01:52:18Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > … “step on this book.” “… the long awaited sequel to the Abbie Hoffman classic…” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/122 "2010-01-09T02:02:31Z")
> [@Silverstreak Wonder](#): > > Kyla, it would be a law about searches for ANY group or nation declaring they want to destroy us, and would be used to single out that, it would not be a law based on what religion. Then it’s unjust, not to mention ineffective, to base the screening criterion on a test specific to members of one religion. Muslims in general, not just jihadi terrorists, will be unwilling to step on copies of the Qur’an, and so will decent non-Muslims who recognize how repulsive it is to use a deliberate act of offensive desecration as a litmus test for security screening. The only thing your cretinous plan would accomplish would be to give a gleeful thrill to bigoted cretins like yourself, who would enjoy desecrating the Muslim holy scripture and offending Muslims by offering them the option of desecrating it too. However, your cretinous anti-Muslim bigotry does have one good aspect: it will make the less cretinous anti-Muslim bigots around here a little more careful what they say, for fear of being associated with you. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/123 "2010-01-09T02:05:02Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Kyla, it would be a law about searches for ANY group or nation declaring they want to destroy us, and would be used to single out that, it would not be a law based on what religion. I would be fine with adding say North Korea to that list too for instance. But the fact is right now it is just that one group doing the bombings. What you seem to not grasp is that your idea is offensive to ALL Muslims (and, as a result, inherently offensive to a lot of other people, myself included), whereas it is only a small minority of Muslims that are terrorists who support jihad. I’m basing this on the time I’ve spent in Muslim dominated countries (Albania, Bosnia, Egypt, Palestinian Territories, Turkey) and in countries with large Muslim minorities (Bulgaria, India, Israel, Macedonia). My drinking buddy Nuria, who’s from Seattle, is not a terrorist and she has nothing to hide when she flies. She’s a Muslim. My classmate Hossam, who’s from Michigan and spent two years as a Peace Corps Volunteer in South Africa, is not a terrorist or a dangerous person. He’s a Muslim. My students Selmin, Mehmed, Filiz, Saihan, and Aisel are all ethnically Turkish Bulgarians, and Muslims (or Musulmani, as they call themselves). They’re just a bunch of kids who should pay more attention in class and do their homework more often. I really need to explain this to you? The fact that you don’t get this is why everyone thinks you’re a troll or an idiot. Along with probably being totally useless in actually catching any terrorists, your idea is phenomenally stupid as a policy because it actually WOULD piss off the one billion Muslims in the world. People who otherwise wouldn’t actually give a shit would probably be MORE likely to engage in anti-American behavior. This is a little thing called “backlash”. So it fails on that front, too. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/124 "2010-01-09T02:10:31Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > we sent Japanese US citizens to concentration camps, all fine with our constitution the supreme court said. So I can’t imagine fighting a real enemy who has real bombs and just searching for them would be a problem at all. Even better, we could round up all the Muslims in the US right now and march them out of the country. Into Mexico, probably. We could have them leave via some sort of trail. I’m sure there’s precedent for it. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/125 "2010-01-09T02:28:59Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > If you are defending America so well, don’t forget we sent Japanese US citizens to concentration camps, all fine with our constitution the supreme court said. So I can’t imagine fighting a real enemy who has real bombs and just searching for them would be a problem at all. Well, slavery was constitutional as well until the 13th Amendment. Please tell me you’re not actually an adult. That would be too depressing. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/126 "2010-01-09T02:30:41Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > But we are getting far off subject, all I tried to do is say lets search moslems first, because guess what, they are who are bringing bombs in. Sure seems simple to me. I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that you did not read the article I linked on ergodicity. ---
**Author:** ![Scruff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Scruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruff)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/127 "2010-01-09T02:40:22Z")
Is **Silverstreak Wonder** the first sock-sighting from the suspended **Curtis LeMay**??? I doubt there are two people that stupid on the planet, outside of Teabag Nation. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/128 "2010-01-09T02:49:01Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Kyla, Again there was NO requirement to do that, the other choice was always the search, which would still be done if we did all people as well. I don’t know what would be illegal, no one anywhere would be able to say they are required to step on it. No one getting the total search would have to even go down the isle to see it either. Waitwaitwait. Is your proposal “everyone goes to the gate, and before getting on the airplane, they are given the _choice_ between a security search (magnetometer and/or pat-down) or stepping on a Qur’an?” I thought you were proposing it as an addition. If it’s not an addition but an either/or, you’re even more stupid than I thought. I know it’s not worth explaining, because you’ve so far shown yourself to be somewhat less intelligent than a stick of chalk, but here’s to futility: the _last thing_ you would want to do in an attempt to screen for potential terrorists is give them a choice not to be screened. There’s other issues, too (like the previously-mentioned fact that if someone’s motive is to blow up a plane, they’re likely to assume that martyring themselves will balance out any other sins performed in the act of martyring themselves), but seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/129 "2010-01-09T02:51:38Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > but they also don’t just target the group we need to. You’re right there… the group we _really_ need to target is the people who equiate being American with holding their particular cultural values, and condemning anyone who doesn’t happen to share them. Like you, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/130 "2010-01-09T03:17:06Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Or become intoxicated with alcohol! I would fully support that! Would work on those dangerous Mormon terrorists, too! “Sir, do I have your permission to get you shitfaced before you board this aircraft?” Hell, I’d even get to the airport earlier than normal for that! ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/131 "2010-01-09T03:21:25Z")
Even if we ignore the idiocy of suggesting that the entire Muslim world has declared war on the United States when in fact only a very small subset of Muslims who happen to be of particular sects are “at war” with the US, and the idiocy of assuming that there would be no terrorist in those sects that would consider desecrating the Koran in that fashion simply an unfortunate price to be paid for the greater good (in their eyes) of striking a crippling blow against The Great Satan, that plan would also give a free pass to any non-Muslim nutjob in the world that decided it would be a fun idea to pull a similar stunt. Remember Timothy McVeigh? Remember Aum Shinrikyo in Japan? No, they didn’t happen to pick airliners to do their dirty work, but they certainly demonstrated that non-Muslims can be terrorists too! ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/132 "2010-01-09T03:35:30Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > Remember Aum Shinrikyo in Japan? Japanese police do, however, try to find Aum members by asking them to trample on pictures of cult guru Shoko Asahara. Same thing y/n? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/133 "2010-01-09T04:41:33Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Kyla, it would be a law about searches for ANY group or nation declaring they want to destroy us, and would be used to single out that, it would not be a law based on what religion. Muslims have not declared war on us (and it’s “Muslims,” not “moslems.” Only retards spell it “moslems.” You also need to capitalize both “Muslim” and “Koran”). There really is no “war,” by the way. That term is a rhetorical one, not a literal one. You’re not under fire. You’re perfectly safe. You don’t have to go around gibbering with fear that the big, bad Muslims are going to get you. If you see a Somali woman crossing the street, do you wet your pants with terror and start crying? You do, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/134 "2010-01-09T07:05:31Z")
> [@Scruff](#): > > Is **Silverstreak Wonder** the first sock-sighting from the suspended **Curtis LeMay**??? > > I doubt there are two people that stupid on the planet, outside of Teabag Nation. You know I was kinda wondering this myself ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/135 "2010-01-09T09:31:10Z")
> [@Scruff](#): > > Is **Silverstreak Wonder** the first sock-sighting from the suspended **Curtis LeMay**??? Not unless **Curtis** has taken up heavy drinking since he got suspended. > [@Scruff](#): > > I doubt there are two people that stupid on the planet, outside of Teabag Nation. “The two most common things in the Universe are hydrogen and stupidity.” ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/136 "2010-01-09T12:46:55Z")
Silv, as you certainly must be aware, all good, patriotic Americans believe in the righteousness of the Bill of Rights. Correct? I suggest you use that as the basis of your ideas. I mean, it says it all right there in the good ol’ 1st Amendment which protects the rights of all Americans to practice Christianity. Oh, wait… ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/137 "2010-01-09T13:42:07Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that you did not read the article I linked on ergodicity. Don’t be stoopid, son. The word alone’s got fou…no, five syllableses. One dollar each, amirite ? GIT R DUN ! ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/138 "2010-01-09T19:42:35Z")
> [@BorgHunter](#): > > I also disagree with **choie** above, though. As an atheist, I’d have no problem standing on a copy of the Qur’an, Bible, or _ **The God Delusion** _. They’re just books. I’d feel reluctant to do so if it happened to by my copy. I seem to have an aversion to standing on my possessions that are not meant for standing on. ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/139 "2010-01-09T20:16:42Z")
OK guys, I am indeed surprised all of you seem to want total searches for everyone despite this one group always doing the bombings, but I really do believe now that is what you all want. By the way people seem to think I am the OP, I am not, this Dan person was. You all are entitled to your opinion and if your dream of long searches for all happen, then you can fly and I will not bother. I just wish you all had looked at the proposal before saying silly things like I was restricting religious freedom 1st amendment and all that, I didn’t do that at all. The only difference is whether to just total search moslems or everybody, the moslem would come out the same way both ways. He could worship all he wanted and he would never be required to step on anything, just submit to the same search you all want for yourselves now. But flights would get off ground faster with my plan, and the plan did still include the regular before Xmas checks of all people, with just the total search being for those of the group doing bombings with explosives on them known as suicide bombers. But most of you could not think that well to follow what was said and start rants that I was letting everyone else thru free, I wasn’t at all. It is the pit but still I feel no reason to call any of you names, you can have your opinions and delay air travel even more because you seem to think we have Christian suicide bombers getting on planes we need to check. Well if we do I will be happy to say I was wrong when some of those get caught then. I am not worried about that happening at all. Good luck making your airline connections now, to keep from offending the folks with the bombs and violating their privacy. Goodness, we can’t have that. Again, want to restate that I never said what is in the title of this thread and I am not the OP, Dan is and he is supposed to be here defending his position that I said that, but where is he? Thanks for educating me that liberal folks do indeed want to be searched totally, I had expected most would not want that, you did convince me you do. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188/140 "2010-01-09T20:41:32Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > I just wish you all had looked at the proposal before saying silly things like I was restricting religious freedom 1st amendment and all that, I didn’t do that at all. The only difference is whether to just total search moslems or everybody, the moslem would come out the same way both ways. Actually, yeah, that IS a restriction of religion. > [@](#): > > It is the pit but still I feel no reason to call any of you names, you can have your opinions and delay air travel even more because you seem to think we have Christian suicide bombers getting on planes we need to check > Good luck making your airline connections now, to keep from offending the folks with the bombs and violating their privacy. Goodness, we can’t have that. Please quote the part where someone else said there were Christian suicide bombers. And you’re right, we CAN’T have that. Because it would be immoral and ILLEGAL OMG HOW ARE YOU SO STUPID. > [@](#): > > Thanks for educating me that liberal folks do indeed want to be searched totally, I had expected most would not want that, you did convince me you do. Actually, we would generally prefer there to be intelligent security, rather that total searching. At least, that’s what I would prefer. Alongside that would be a comprehensive government policy that would work to lessen the threat of terrorist activity overall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/those-who-think-muslims-arent-americans/524188.md?page=8)