# Thou shalt not kill and hypocratic faith? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 2, 2011, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123 "2011-01-02T07:24:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ExistentialistDesperado33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a183cd/32.png) [@ExistentialistDesperado33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExistentialistDesperado33)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/61 "2011-01-04T13:41:29Z")
damn was too late to add… I took it you meant “have had {} problems with war and genocidal behavior” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/62 "2011-01-04T13:48:43Z")
> [@ExistentialistDesperado33](#): > > ``` > My point from then on was that for some belief in a higher supernatural entity has desensitised the morality of killing/war/punishment, and that i was calling to question the justification of certain actions and the belief systems that are used to justify them. > > ``` The thing is, though, pretty much all societies, not just theocratic ones, and even ones that didn’t have any knowledge of he Hebrew bible or its law code, took the position that killing was sometimes justifiable. ---
**Author:** ![ExistentialistDesperado33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a183cd/32.png) [@ExistentialistDesperado33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExistentialistDesperado33)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/63 "2011-01-04T13:50:48Z")
and i can very well say that im totally advocating eliminating religion/beliefs as there are also positive aspect to them and you have to understand that i don’t think it is correct to try to govern beliefs more that I believe that studying beliefs and the implications of those beliefs should promote critical thinking and should lead to tangible change. ---
**Author:** ![ExistentialistDesperado33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a183cd/32.png) [@ExistentialistDesperado33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExistentialistDesperado33)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/64 "2011-01-04T13:57:16Z")
correction :^and i can’t very well say that im totally advocating eliminating religion/beliefs (sorry bout that) > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The thing is, though, pretty much all societies, not just theocratic ones, and even ones that didn’t have any knowledge of he Hebrew bible or its law code, took the position that killing was sometimes justifiable. I agree totally (which lead me to think about treating the belief which lead to those perpetual behaviour cycles), I think during this debate i have been a bit confusing to some which i apologise for those times but I hope i have provided some food for thought also. ---
**Author:** ![ExistentialistDesperado33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a183cd/32.png) [@ExistentialistDesperado33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExistentialistDesperado33)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/65 "2011-01-04T13:59:21Z")
\*\* ---
**Author:** ![ExistentialistDesperado33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a183cd/32.png) [@ExistentialistDesperado33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExistentialistDesperado33)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/66 "2011-01-04T14:06:58Z")
well provided ideas some find worth elaborating on ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/67 "2011-01-04T14:11:41Z")
> [@ExistentialistDesperado33](#): > > The abrahamic religions all stem from a basis whereby moses laid out the ten commandments. > one of these: Thou shalt not kill. Followers of Jesus has grace, which is another path separate from the Law of Moses, the way I take it is try to show the Love of Christ through you to the best of your ability. The Law leads to death, the way of grace leads to life. So even though yes Moses did lay down the law, Jesus nailed it to a tree. (Ro 7: 4-6 goes into this fairly well) > [@](#): > > The question i would like to ask of those who have a abrahamic faith (and also opinions of others) is: > > How can religious war (or war in general) be justified by those who claim to be faithful and support the idea that scripture is god breathed ? > > Thankyou in advance for any replies as I would like to know peoples views 🙂 Religions that are following the written code (Law of Moses) lead to sin and ultimately death which wars bring death in abundance. Another way to look at this is the Law of Moses can’t be followed by us, yet we keep trying to achieve it. Trying to achieve something unachievable can ultimately lead to insanity and some would say that by definition is already insanity. This is helped by the religious leaders stressing to follow the Law even though it can’t be followed, which is easy to understand how minds can be warped into thinking a message of Love is a order to go to war. ---
**Author:** ![ExistentialistDesperado33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a183cd/32.png) [@ExistentialistDesperado33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExistentialistDesperado33)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/68 "2011-01-04T14:21:52Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Followers of Jesus has grace, which is another path separate from the Law of Moses, the way I take it is try to show the Love of Christ through you to the best of your ability. The Law leads to death, the way of grace leads to life. interesting to hear your views > [@kanicbird](#): > > This is helped by the religious leaders stressing to follow the Law even though it can’t be followed, which is easy to understand how minds can be warped into thinking a message of Love is a order to go to war. yes i agree totally ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/69 "2011-01-04T14:24:49Z")
> [@ExistentialistDesperado33](#): > > I agree totally (which lead me to think about treating the belief which lead to those perpetual behaviour cycles), I think during this debate i have been a bit confusing to some which i apologise for those times but I hope i have provided some food for thought also. I don’t think the belief that killing is sometimes justifiable is neccesarily a bad thing, so I don’t understand why you want to change it. If somebody is trying to kill you or someone else, should you just let them? I think you should try to stop them, even if you have to kill them to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/70 "2011-01-04T14:28:18Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Another way to look at this is the Law of Moses can’t be followed by us, yet we keep trying to achieve it. It clearly can, because it is an actual legal code that has been followed throughout history, and even now, even though it lacks an enforcement mechanism, and some of the provisions, like the sacrifice laws, are obsolete, Orthodox Jews follow it even now. ---
**Author:** ![ExistentialistDesperado33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a183cd/32.png) [@ExistentialistDesperado33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExistentialistDesperado33)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/71 "2011-01-04T14:37:21Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t think the belief that killing is sometimes justifiable is neccesarily a bad thing, so I don’t understand why you want to change it. If somebody is trying to kill you or someone else, should you just let them? I think you should try to stop them, even if you have to kill them to do it. yes i agree that you should defend yourself if someone is attacking you, but actually being the attacker is a different thing so they should be regarded as completely unconnected. (you can defend without killing) ---
**Author:** ![ExistentialistDesperado33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a183cd/32.png) [@ExistentialistDesperado33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExistentialistDesperado33)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/72 "2011-01-04T14:42:57Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It clearly can, because it is an actual legal code that has been followed throughout history, and even now, even though it lacks an enforcement mechanism, and some of the provisions, like the sacrifice laws, are obsolete, Orthodox Jews follow it even now. yes but of what value is it to us? while it can be argued that the Law of moses was significant at a time, how valuable is that now and the circumstances of the modern world? there is a direct connection to belief and recurring cycles of behaviour/recurring consequences ---
**Author:** ![ExistentialistDesperado33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a183cd/32.png) [@ExistentialistDesperado33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExistentialistDesperado33)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/73 "2011-01-04T15:09:11Z")
can i also say that im more interested in and trying to develop the idea that a set of beliefs directly influence eventual outcomes, i am not claiming to be an expert of exactly what belief should be questioned (though killing seems an obvious one to me). (This post has moved on quite a bit since the start and I dont nessesarily hold all/some of the views I did when posting earlier) ---
**Author:** ![ExistentialistDesperado33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a183cd/32.png) [@ExistentialistDesperado33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExistentialistDesperado33)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123/74 "2011-01-04T15:24:35Z")
(damn ran out of time to edit, trying to eat smoke & type ) yes i have my set own ideas of what areas of society could be re-examined, but it’s more of an issue for me that there is a reluctance to change our behaviour which for me is an inability to enact real change. the whole of society [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thou-shalt-not-kill-and-hypocratic-faith/566123.md?page=3)