# Thought experiment for white people regarding race. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652 "2011-07-20T00:50:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/21 "2011-07-20T04:05:53Z")
Depends on what I happen to be [wearing](http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/2/4/4/68244_v1.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![I\_Know\_Nothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f04885/32.png) [@I\_Know\_Nothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Know_Nothing)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/22 "2011-07-20T04:07:37Z")
What if you had the choice between 5 black doctors and 5 white high school dropouts? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/23 "2011-07-20T04:28:17Z")
> [@I\_Know\_Nothing](#): > > What if you had the choice between 5 black doctors and 5 white high school dropouts? That’s sort of what I’m thinking; or, say, 5 black guys dressed normally and five white guys dressed in gang outfits or like skinheads. Or in the other direction, five black guys with bats and knives during some race driven riot situation. Race by itself isn’t very informative. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/24 "2011-07-20T04:54:22Z")
I’d much rather run into 5 minority males. I live in a white-majority country, state, county, and city. Those minority guys aren’t going to get away with anything. 5 white kids, though, they might be dangerous punks, their families might be important. Really, though, race is not a major cue here. 5 churchy kids, black or white, won’t scare me; I was raised a churchy kid. 5 stoners I might just ignore. 5 tweakers, I’m not sure. 5 thuggish looking guys, probably aren’t really thugs, but I won’t exactly veer into them. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/25 "2011-07-20T05:00:50Z")
5 Jews FTW. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/26 "2011-07-20T05:07:11Z")
The false premise of the OP is that if fear exists, there must be a basis for it. Suppose you find out that ninety percent of Americans are more scared of black men than they are of white men. What does that prove? That black men are more frightening than white men? No, it only proves that Americans are more scared of black men. If a woman walks down the street in fear that every man she sees is thinking about raping her, her fear doesn’t mean that every man is a potential rapist. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/27 "2011-07-20T05:23:56Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > A thought experiment, aimed towards white people. Why “aimed towards white people”? Are you claiming that not only are black people more violent but more racist as well? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/28 "2011-07-20T05:47:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No preference. If five guys are hanging out in a dark alley, the reason they’re there is likely equally dodgy regardless of color. This. I’m not racist, but I’m also not stupid. I’m crossing the street and pre-dialing 911 on my cell phone, JIC. ---
**Author:** ![J\_Cubed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@J\_Cubed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J_Cubed)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/29 "2011-07-20T05:56:56Z")
Five black guys, because I’d be all like, “what up, my niggas?” and we’d have a good laugh and spark up a joint. ---
**Author:** ![dukette71](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@dukette71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dukette71)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/30 "2011-07-20T06:33:05Z")
I am more concerned about their age than race. Unfortunately, I discriminate against young men. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/31 "2011-07-20T07:26:46Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > As a woman, I’d be a fool to take a walk down a dark alley by myself, regardless of the racial group I might encounter. Five white guys approach and I’d be thinking frat boy gang rape, so I think I would prefer the black guys. I don’t know if it’s rational, but that’s how I’d feel. Yeah, same here. As a woman, walking toward a group of five men, their racial make up is not what worries me. So **scamartistry** , as a thought experiment, would you prefer to meet a group of men in that alley or a group of women? Statistically speaking - the men are more likely to attack you than the women are. It’s simple math, right? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/32 "2011-07-20T08:04:22Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > So **scamartistry** , as a thought experiment, would you prefer to meet a group of men in that alley or a group of women? Statistically speaking - the men are more likely to attack you than the women are. It’s simple math, right? Assuming this isn’t a false analogy, this would reinforce **scamartistry’s** point, such as it is, wouldn’t it? AFAIK it’s a statistical and biological fact that men are indeed more likely to attack someone, as opposed to women in the same position. And women are justified in being wary around groups of strange men at night. Are white people justified in being wary around groups of strange black people? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/33 "2011-07-20T08:19:47Z")
Race really isn’t the question here. Culture is. Due to the history of black life in this country over the last few hundred years, black people have suffered economically and socially. Crime is almost always higher in socially and economically deprived areas. Plus, crime is considered “cool” by a larger percentage of people in underprivileged areas. Thus, a culture more prone to crime results, and, given that the largest areas of underprivilige in America tend to be the black communities, the result is that black people are more likely to be involved in criminal behavior than their white counterparts. So it’s the criminality common in black culture that creates fear and apprehension when coming upon a group of black youths, and not their race in and of itself. For example, I feel certain that few people would feel apprehension coming upon a group of black guys who look like [this](http://www.mvgazette.com/images/photocache/img/1938.jpg), whereas they would likely feel considerable apprehension if they were to happen upon a group of black guys who look like [this](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_f0bvyZMrZ9k/TUHvtjy6sJI/AAAAAAAAGGM/maRREYwNBac/s1600/thugs.jpg). So the problem really isn’t one of race, or people would be just as fearful of the first group as they would be of the second. I really wish people would stop using the term “race” to describe problems and behaviors that are cultural instead. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/34 "2011-07-20T08:30:24Z")
Where the heck do you guys live? I live in DC and if I crossed the street every time I saw men in an alley, I’d only be setting myself up to get hit by a car within a week. Ae we really this scared of everything? Baddies are looking for an easy mark, someone who will submit easily and be too scared to call the police. The foundation of women’s self-defence is walking with easy confidence and not looking out of place, responding calmly and assertively to inappropriate comments, and making easy normal eye contact with people on th street. This, more than the race of whoever happens to be around, is my main concern in sketchy places. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/35 "2011-07-20T08:38:40Z")
I don’t think it’s a false analogy - both cases involve generalizing about people based on inherited traits. If anything, sexual chromosomes are more likely predictors of violence than mere skin color, since they also affect things like hormones, musculature, and so on. So Koxinga, is it fair for women to just assume you’re dangerous until you prove otherwise? Are you willing to accept certain assumptions being made about yourself, based on statistical notions? Should a woman assume that you’re violent until you convince her otherwise? Or the contrary - is it safe to assume that group of women won’t hurt you, since statistically, that’s pretty unlikely? The real question here is - are general stereotypes useful in predicting behavior from individuals? Should we treat the individual as if the stereotype is true until the individual demonstrates contrary behavior? Statistics tell us that women, in general, are harmless and men, in general, are dangerous. Is it useful to assume that’s true if you’re dealing with an individual (or even several individuals). I don’t think it is, regardless of the light level in any given alley. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/36 "2011-07-20T08:57:17Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > So Koxinga, is it fair for women to just assume you’re dangerous until you prove otherwise? If they encounter me in a dark alley, as posited by the OP, then **yes** > [@](#): > > Are you willing to accept certain assumptions being made about yourself, based on statistical notions? Should a woman assume that you’re violent until you convince her otherwise? If they encounter me in a dark alley, as posited by the OP, then **yes** > [@](#): > > Or the contrary - is it safe to assume that group of women won’t hurt you, since statistically, that’s pretty unlikely? Do you realize that’s a tautology? > [@](#): > > The real question here is - are general stereotypes useful in predicting behavior from individuals? Should we treat the individual as if the stereotype is true until the individual demonstrates contrary behavior? In certain circumstances, why not? Stereotypically, a person who has never graduated from high school will not know how to design a rocket engine. Unless he or she brings me overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I feel safe in assuming that I shouldn’t hire that person to be my personal rocket engineer. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/37 "2011-07-20T10:11:20Z")
I don’t know why this is directed at whites. Blacks can be prejudiced too. And we all know about black-on-black crime (can’t get enough of it, in fact!) I would be more afraid of the black guys hitting on me than _hitting_ me. Actually, the more of them, the safer I would feel. I would be more afraid of the white guys asking dumb-ass questions (“Where can we get some weed!”) than them beating me up. This assumes both groups are not doing anything menacing (brandishing weapons, growling) and looking for trouble. Even if both groups are dressed thuggishly, I would probably be equally wary of them, but in different ways. It would make more sense for the black guys to beat up another black guy than them to beat up a white guy. If caught, their prison sentences will likely be shorter if you’re black, and if they kill you, they have a lower chance of getting the death penalty. Also, if the black folk rape you, people will be more likely to believe you than if they are white (regardless of your race). If white guys rape you and you’re black, you will be called a lying whore and inspire two trainwreck threads on the StraightDope. ---
**Author:** ![Lobelia\_Overhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@Lobelia\_Overhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobelia_Overhill)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/38 "2011-07-20T10:20:28Z")
I live in an “exclusively” white village. To suggest there is no crime here would be incorrect. All right we don’t have violent crimes here, but it’s not crime free. The lack of crime isn’t down to the skin colour of the residents, but more because everyone knows everyone else and it’s near impossible to get away with so much as stalling your car in the street, much less mugging someone I wouldn’t be particularly bothered about which group of men the OP has posited that I meet. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/39 "2011-07-20T10:50:40Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Statistics tell us that women, in general, are harmless and men, in general, are dangerous. No, they say that men and women are dangerous in different ways under different circumstances. Women are much less likely to attack a stranger, both genders are equally likely to engage in domestic violence, women are more likely to poison people or torture (as opposed to molest) children. ---
**Author:** ![scamartistry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@scamartistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scamartistry)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652/40 "2011-07-20T12:25:10Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Yeah, same here. As a woman, walking toward a group of five men, their racial make up is not what worries me. > > So **scamartistry** , as a thought experiment, would you prefer to meet a group of men in that alley or a group of women? Statistically speaking - the men are more likely to attack you than the women are. It’s simple math, right? yes very easy,group of women of course [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thought-experiment-for-white-people-regarding-race/589652.md?page=3)