# Thoughts about the election that don't seem to belong anywhere else **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 14, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002 "2016-11-14T20:57:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Yersenia\_Pestis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e495f1/32.png) [@Yersenia\_Pestis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yersenia_Pestis)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/161 "2016-12-01T22:53:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And it’s not a problem that ~90% of black voters vote for the dems? Do they need a kick in the balls so they diversify their politics? Take a trip to the Deep South - the confederate flag people and the blantanly racists all vote republican (when they vote) - black people are very aware of this, it screams at your face who the Republican Party currently prioritizes down there. That’s why they vote democratic… ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/162 "2016-12-01T22:57:44Z")
> [@Yersenia\_Pestis](#): > > Take a trip to the Deep South - the confederate flag people and the blantanly racists all vote republican (when they vote) - black people are very aware of this, it screams at your face who the Republican Party currently prioritizes down there. That’s why they vote democratic… I’ve been to every part of the country. I’ve seen more Confederate flags in Oregon and British Columbia, of all places, than in most of the Deep South. And I don’t think that is why blacks in the whole nation vote overwhelmingly dem. Maybe in Mississippi it would explain it. But why Detroit or Chiraq? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/163 "2016-12-01T23:03:56Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > How long do y’all think it will be before Trump starts taking credit for the sun coming up every morning? > > I say it happens before the [del]Coronation[/del] Inauguration. Well, he did save the Carrier plant. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/164 "2016-12-01T23:06:26Z")
> [@](#): > > …And I don’t think that is why blacks in the whole nation vote overwhelmingly dem… OK, so why do they vote that way? Hi, my name is ' **luc** , and I suffer from morbid curiosity…(Hi, ' **luc**!)… ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/165 "2016-12-01T23:12:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > OK, so why do they vote that way? > > Hi, my name is ' **luc** , and I suffer from morbid curiosity…(Hi, ' **luc**!)… You asking me? I don’t really know. After talking to my black neighbors in the Deep South I know their reasons but i can’t conjecture for the rest. Their reasons were as the Jim Crow era was coming to an end a lot of Democratic white racists shifted to the Republican Party locally and so they decided to keep voting Democrat. But that’s one anecdote. And this older black couple are not liberal in the way that liberalism is commonly thought of. In many ways they are more conservative in outlook, manner, and speech than me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/166 "2016-12-01T23:13:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, he did save the Carrier plant. > [@](#): > > …The incentives offered by the state were an important consideration… Carrier Co. statement [https://www.carrier.com/carrier/en/bs/news/news-article/carrier\_statement\_regarding\_indianapolis\_operations.aspx](https://www.carrier.com/carrier/en/bs/news/news-article/carrier_statement_regarding_indianapolis_operations.aspx) It is rare to find corporate PR that displays such a droll sense of understatement. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/167 "2016-12-01T23:30:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Carrier Co. statement > [https://www.carrier.com/carrier/en/bs/news/news-article/carrier\_statement\_regarding\_indianapolis\_operations.aspx](https://www.carrier.com/carrier/en/bs/news/news-article/carrier_statement_regarding_indianapolis_operations.aspx) > > It is rare to find corporate PR that displays such a droll sense of understatement. I know there was more to it than just a simple phone call from Trump, but even a hardcore Dem would be hard-pressed to ignore the symbolism involved. > **[Flashback: Obama Mocks Trump for Promising to Keep Carrier Plant in U.S.](https://news.grabien.com/story/flashback-obama-mocks-trump-promising-keep-carrier-plant-us)** > > ‘Those jobs of the past are just not going to come back’ > **[Trump, Pence tour Carrier plant to tout job-saving deal](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-pence-tour-carrier-plant-to-tout-job-saving-deal)** > > President-elect Donald Trump touched down in wingman Mike Pence's home state Thursday to take a bow for their dramatic, job-saving deal with Carrier air conditioning. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/168 "2016-12-02T07:03:55Z")
“Symbolism” is precisely the right word. You are to be congratulated. ---
**Author:** ![BrerRobert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@BrerRobert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrerRobert)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/169 "2016-12-02T07:34:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Symbolism” is precisely the right word. You are to be congratulated. I’m sure it has more than symbolic meaning to the 1100 people who won’t be losing their jobs, as well as their families. And of course in addition to food being kept on the table, symbolism itself is an important aspect of leadership. [http://blog.dilbert.com/post/153905823756/the-new-ceos-first-moves-and-trump](http://blog.dilbert.com/post/153905823756/the-new-ceos-first-moves-and-trump) You are to be congratulated for recognizing and acknowledging it’s importance. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/170 "2016-12-02T08:39:43Z")
Well, the lying media has gathered a much less adulatory take on it all, but if you were interested, you’d most likely already know. Hint: the 35% tariff threat was considerably…softened. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/171 "2016-12-02T12:13:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Well, he did save the Carrier plant. That is not a fact, it is an opinion. Actually, the whole deal is a one-off can’t be repeated stinker. I’m afraid the only solution that Republicans will understand is a bad one…protectionist tarriffs on any product we can and do make in the US. Yes, our cost of living will soar and exports will dive, but, for a little while, people will say we are protecting our workers and that is all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/172 "2016-12-02T14:02:45Z")
> [@BrerRobert](#): > > I’m sure it has more than symbolic meaning to the 1100 people who won’t be losing their jobs, as well as their families. But not the [1300 other people (and their families)](http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/carrier-gets-tax-breaks-but-it-s-still-sending-jobs/article_d2f958e5-1eaf-5401-93b1-c6b0990acab2.html) who will still be losing their jobs there. A modest win is still a modest win, but if keeping even some jobs from going overseas is going to involve promising millions and billions in both state and federal tax breaks, that is going to exacerbate the already concerning deficit and national/state debt that Tea Party Republicans have made a big issue out of. That, in turn, will affect Trump’s ambitious (and as-of-now unfunded) infrastructure plan, his plan to increase the size of the military, and his plan to lower personal income tax rates and corporate tax rates. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/173 "2016-12-02T14:23:36Z")
Looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger is taking over _Celebrity Apprentice_. I’d infinitely prefer President Ahnold to Trump; he may be Republican but he’s a pragmatist above all. I might have even voted for him. Alas, it’s never to be… ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/174 "2016-12-02T14:32:19Z")
> [@BrerRobert](#): > > I’m sure it has more than symbolic meaning to the 1100 people who won’t be losing their jobs, as well as their families. > > And of course in addition to food being kept on the table, symbolism itself is an important aspect of leadership. [http://blog.dilbert.com/post/153905823756/the-new-ceos-first-moves-and-trump](http://blog.dilbert.com/post/153905823756/the-new-ceos-first-moves-and-trump) > > You are to be congratulated for recognizing and acknowledging it’s importance. Saving those 1,100 jobs is the equivalent of the symbolic pardoning of the Thanksgiving turkey every year. All the other turkeys still have their heads in the chopping block. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/175 "2016-12-02T14:33:46Z")
From a CNN story about a meeting of aides from both camps - “This is the problem with the media. You guys took everything Donald Trump said so literally,” Lewandowski said. “The American people didn’t. They understood it. They understood sometimes when you have a conversation with people, whether it’s around the dinner table or at a bar, you’re going to say things and sometimes you don’t have all the facts to back it up.” Facts? We don’t need no stinking facts! And, somehow, this is seen as O.K. inside the Trump team. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/176 "2016-12-02T16:27:21Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > From a CNN story about a meeting of aides from both camps - > > “This is the problem with the media. You guys took everything Donald Trump said so literally,” Lewandowski said. “The American people didn’t. They understood it. They understood sometimes when you have a conversation with people, whether it’s around the dinner table or at a bar, you’re going to say things and sometimes you don’t have all the facts to back it up.” > > Facts? We don’t need no stinking facts! > > And, somehow, this is seen as O.K. inside the Trump team. There is indeed a certain fallacy at times, “If you can’t provide the facts or sources RIGHT NOW, your argument is invalid or non-factual.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/177 "2016-12-02T17:51:17Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > How long do y’all think it will be before Trump starts taking credit for the sun coming up every morning? > > I say it happens before the [del]Coronation[/del] Inauguration. God would not like that … Jeremiah 33: 19-21 The Lord spoke his word to Jeremiah, saying: “This is what the Lord says: I have an agreement with day and night that they will always come at the right times. If you could change that agreement, only then could you change my agreement with David and Levi. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/178 "2016-12-02T19:17:24Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There is indeed a certain fallacy at times, “If you can’t provide the facts or sources RIGHT NOW, your argument is invalid or non-factual.” Its not that sources can’t be provided RIGHT NOW, its the taking the media to task for taking the things Trump said literally that irks me. How is anyone supposed to know when he actually means what he says? Will this really be four years of him saying something and then his people saying that isn’t what he just said? I guess when he says (over and over again) “Believe me” he doesn’t mean that we should _actually_ believe him. Because, you know, liars say that all the time at the dinner table or wherever and people get that. Unrelated, there was an excerpt from his Carrier speech that was completely incomprehensible. it was 30 seconds or more of the gibberish that, I guess, got him elected. Rambling, incomplete thoughts or sentences that made zero sense. I wish I could find the link but if you watch the whole speech (and I didn’t), its in there. I’m still having a hard time grasping the fact (or opinion, I guess) that he got enough votes to win. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/179 "2016-12-02T19:47:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Well, he did save the Carrier plant. First of all, I’m shocked, shocked I say, to learn that Republicans are interfering in the free market. I expect a strong backlash from the real, do-it-yourself, succeed-or-fail-on-your-own-merits Republicans that we’ve been hearing from for the last eight years (like I expect a unicorn for Christmas). Do we know that Carrier will be able to stay competitive with foreign-made products, and for how long? Or is “save” just code for “delayed the inevitable”? > [@BrerRobert](#): > > I’m sure it has more than symbolic meaning to the 1100 people who won’t be losing their jobs, as well as their families. Lucky them (more on that below), but in the broader political context, this is nothing but a PR stunt from a master of PR stunts. Buying off one little company in the VP’s home state is hardly going to slay the two-headed dragon of globalization and automation. Sure makes for good PR, though, as we’re seeing. His followers are acting like the country is saved because one factory was bribed into not closing. The Carrier employees are lucky that Trump got involved because “he was moved by a Carrier employee and Trump supporter who promised his co-workers that Trump wouldn’t let the company leave. ‘It’s because of that guy,’ Trump said, scanning the assembled throng and explaining how he reached out to the company’s top brass.” (from HurricaneDitka’s second link) This isn’t a policy move that will save jobs across the board. It’s a highly-selective one-off that does nothing for the country as a whole. The Carrier workers are also lucky that their parent company, United Technologies, gets federal government contracts every year worth five billion–with a _ **B** _–dollars. Again, how lucky are workers whose jobs aren’t connected with federal contracts? We’ll soon find out, because the other shoe is about to drop… > [@](#): > > While Carrier workers were celebrating the 1,000 preserved U.S. jobs, workers and management at Rexnord Bearings, located just a seven-minute drive north of the Carrier facility, were deep into contract negotiations. > > The ball-bearing manufacturer is slated to move nearly 300 jobs to Mexico. > > Reached on his cellphone on Wednesday night, Rexnord employee Chuck Jones was locked in bargaining to keep the Indianapolis factory running. > > “Trump’s coming into town, and we don’t know anything until then, but we’ll be there,” said Jones, who is also the president of United Steelworkers Local 1999, the union representing Carrier workers. > > Was Jones counting on Trump to step into negotiations as he did in the Carrier case? > > “Most certainly,” he said. “That’s what we’re all hoping for.” > > [Trump deal in Indiana saved 1,000 jobs — but can and should it be repeated? | CBC News](http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/donald-trump-carrier-workers-indiana-1.3875277) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002/180 "2016-12-02T20:29:23Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Or is “save” just code for “delayed the inevitable”? Of course, just like when we say someone “saved a life” they really just “delayed the inevitable”. That doesn’t mean the recipient of this saving / delaying should be any less grateful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-about-the-election-that-dont-seem-to-belong-anywhere-else/772002.md?page=10)