# Thoughts during my science fiction novel discussion group. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 30, 2002, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414 "2002-04-30T04:37:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/41 "2016-12-15T00:00:56Z")
On the other hand, this [Dan Simmons puzzle still need answering.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=707290&highlight=Simmons) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/42 "2016-12-15T00:15:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Thirty seconds? Try “almost a month.” I’ve been trying for FOURTEEN years, and I’m pretty proud of myself, but I just can’t stand it any longer. I gotta know, do people think W is really gonna go to war with Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/43 "2016-12-15T00:17:07Z")
I think he will. And it will be a cakewalk, the troops will be home by 2004, easy. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/44 "2016-12-15T02:24:49Z")
If M had just read five pages a month, he’d be finished by now. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/45 "2016-12-15T02:52:09Z")
Book groups sound fun, in a strange sort of way. How do I find one, as a complete outsider to the concept? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/46 "2016-12-15T02:57:36Z")
Start one. That’s what we do. Still doing monthly movie discussion groups, though we are in a “new” city since I started this thread. 18 years going strong. General format is we pick movies ahead of time, everybody watches it on their time, then we meet to eat and discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/47 "2016-12-15T03:44:55Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Book groups sound fun, in a strange sort of way. How do I find one, as a complete outsider to the concept? Attend a local science fiction convention, or hang around a local book store (or game store: lots of overlap.) (Or look up [n3f.org](http://n3f.org) – fair amount of online sf discussion.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/48 "2016-12-15T04:06:46Z")
“My life is a shambles.” ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/49 "2016-12-15T05:10:09Z")
“Flashback” was the one I was talking about. I have no problem with writers taking a political bent, even when it’s in a direction other than mine but the politics have to serve the story, not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/50 "2016-12-15T08:32:51Z")
Wow, I sure was passionate about stuff 14 years ago. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/51 "2016-12-15T11:18:07Z")
What is “Barnes and Noble”? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/52 "2016-12-15T11:40:28Z")
I wish I’d seen this thread originally. I’d have had a lot to say about your misperceptions of the Uplift series, **JohnT**. The series is great, and the kids (all aliens) in \*Brightness Reef \*are only one subset of a larger set of protagonists (and only one of the kids is a POV character). And the initial isolation there is the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/53 "2016-12-15T14:43:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What is “Barnes and Noble”? 😃 Barnes & Noble, Inc., is a Fortune 500 company, the largest retail bookseller in the United States, and a leading retailer of content, digital media and educational products in the country. You’re thinking of Borders, which is a chain of empty buildings. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/54 "2016-12-15T15:37:46Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Book groups sound fun, in a strange sort of way. How do I find one, as a complete outsider to the concept? > [@Trinopus](#): > > Attend a local science fiction convention, or hang around a local book store (or game store: lots of overlap.) Public libraries are another place to find (or start up) a book group. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/55 "2016-12-15T15:48:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I wish I’d seen this thread originally. I’d have had a lot to say about your misperceptions of the Uplift series, **JohnT**. > > The series is great, and the kids (all aliens) in \*Brightness Reef \*are only one subset of a larger set of protagonists (and only one of the kids is a POV character). And the initial isolation there is the whole point. I don’t like to make fun of somebody for something they said fourteen years ago. But I thought it was ironic that after condemning _Brightness Reef_ because it was set on a single planet, JohnT went on the say “_Earth_ was different” and how much he loved it. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/56 "2016-12-15T16:33:38Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Barnes & Noble, Inc., is a Fortune 500 company, the largest retail bookseller in the United States, and a leading retailer of content, digital media and educational products in the country. > > You’re thinking of Borders, which is a chain of empty buildings. ☹ Met my husband when we both worked at a Borders. We drove past that store last night - it’s still empty, has been for almost a decade now. It’s a huge building, a former freestanding Nieman Marcus, you would think they’d put in at least the occasional SPIRIT Halloween store, but nooooo ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/57 "2016-12-15T17:14:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t like to make fun of somebody for something they said fourteen years ago. But I thought it was ironic that after condemning _Brightness Reef_ because it was set on a single planet, JohnT went on the say “_Earth_ was different” and how much he loved it. I don’t think you read my OP at all. My problem with the Uplift books was not that they were set on a single planet, it was that Brin constructed this vast, interesting universe… then filled his damn stories with people trying not to communicate with the vast, interesting universe while hiding on primitive planets. Repeatedly. Then, with the second series… well, he did it again in Brightness Reef. But he didn’t do this in Earth. And I’m not the biggest fan of kids in science fiction. At least I wasn’t in 2002, so that didn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/58 "2016-12-15T21:30:21Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Book groups sound fun, in a strange sort of way. How do I find one, as a complete outsider to the concept? I’d start out by checking on [Meetup](https://www.meetup.com/). If there isn’t a group near you, you can at least attempt to start one. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/59 "2016-12-15T21:47:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The Barnes and Ignoble in my area tried to start a Science Fiction Discussion Group, and assigned the task to a poor clerk that didn’t know jack. At the first meeting he told us that the only “Sigh Fi” book he knew about was the one he was forced to read in school-_The Illustrated Man_. ( Reminds me of the time a few years ago I overheard a Borders clerk trying to help a customer in the SF racks who used to read SF a long time ago, and now wanted to read some of the new authors. The clerk clearly didn’t have a clue and said, “Well, here’s a new author!” It was Ben Bova. :smack: At that point, the customer politely said he’d help himself, thanks. He was in the B’s, so I figured he could find some good stuff on his own. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414/60 "2016-12-16T06:04:53Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > My problem with the Uplift books was not that they were set on a single planet, it was that Brin constructed this vast, interesting universe… then filled his damn stories with people trying not to communicate with the vast, interesting universe while hiding on primitive planets. It’s not like he really built a whole universe. He, in fact, only constructs the bits you get to see, and those bits are relevant because they are the bits our protagonists interact with. _Sundiver_, the first book, is all about communication and discovering new things about the Universe. Yes,\* Startide Rising\* is all about hiding out on a primitive planet - but we learn a lot about the Galactics - enough to know that their actual societies are likely boring to read about. It’s the same reason very little of Banks’ Culture stories are set in the Culture proper. > [@](#): > > Repeatedly. Then, with the second series… well, he did it again in Brightness Reef. That’s only the starting scenario. It gets very different later on. > [@](#): > > And I’m not the biggest fan of kids in science fiction. 1 out of 6-or-so Point of View protagonists is an _alien_ kid trying to write a diary in the style of Mark Twain. Another POV character is a sentient conical stack of Communist inner tubes… if 2002 thought this was a story about kids, you must not have read more than… …5 pages. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-during-my-science-fiction-novel-discussion-group/106414.md?page=4)