# Thoughts on an Epstien like operation **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 21, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943 "2020-07-21T18:21:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/1 "2020-07-21T18:21:03Z")
If it does in fact turn out that the rich and famous were using Epstein’s place as pedophile haven I have to wonder how he was able to make his clients feel secure enough to not being exposed. Were the children used from places where they wouldn’t recognize anyone? Would the trauma of abuse erase their memories as far as faces was concerned? Were these children eventually released? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/2 "2020-07-21T21:54:06Z")
Wow. I have so many thoughts… Your understanding of the Epstein case is so wildly inaccurate I don’t know where to begin. Let’s start with…there’s a difference between pedophilia and underage sex. Epstein was not accused of pedophilia… You know what? Read this and then get back to us. > **[Why the Jeffrey Epstein case inspires so many conspiracy theories](https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/8/14/20803950/jeffrey-epstein-conspiracy-theories-clinton-trump-acosta)** > > These unanswered questions are fueling speculation about the sex offender’s life and death. ---
**Author:** ![Enjoy\_Slurm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enjoy_slurm/32/3937_2.png) [@Enjoy\_Slurm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enjoy_Slurm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/3 "2020-07-21T23:01:16Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Were the children used from places where they wouldn’t recognize anyone? Yes. None of the children were from America or spoke English. > [@](#): > > Would the trauma of abuse erase their memories as far as faces was concerned? Yes. None of the women saying they saw Trump’s, Epstein’s and Prince Andrews face actually remember seeing their faces. > [@](#): > > Were these children eventually released? No. They are still imprisoned in Epstein’s dungeons ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/4 "2020-07-21T23:03:13Z")
While underage girls are indeed the subject, that doesn’t address the OP’s question. And it’s a good question given what people have been saying lately, like Virginia Roberts Giuffre, one of Epstein’s alleged victims. > **[Ghislaine Maxwell could "squeal" on "very well-known names," Epstein accuser...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ghislaine-maxwell-virginia-roberts-giuffre-jeffrey-epstein-squeal-names/)** > > Maxwell is facing criminal charges in connection with Epstein and was denied bail this week. > **King:** Do you think that Ghislaine’s life is in danger? > > **Giuffre:** Absolutely. … If she squeals on some of the people that … she has videos on, they won’t be happy with her talking about that. > > **King:** And when you say that she has videos or she has knowledge of videos that exist about people, people like who? People — well-known names? > > **Giuffre:** Very well-known names. You know, the government officials, the politicians … the royalty. Like, you know, they were taping everybody, every moment … When you walked into the New York mansion to Palm Beach, everything was being filmed. > > **King:** Do you think people knew they were being taped? > > **Giuffre:** No, I do not. Not at all. How they could not know or suspect is incredible. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/5 "2020-07-21T23:09:46Z")
> [@Enjoy\_Slurm](#): > > > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > > > Were the children used from places where they wouldn’t recognize anyone? > > Yes. None of the children were from America or spoke English. > > > [@](#): > > > > Would the trauma of abuse erase their memories as far as faces was concerned? > > Yes. None of the women saying they saw Trump’s, Epstein’s and Prince Andrews face actually remember seeing their faces. > > > [@](#): > > > > Were these children eventually released? > > No. They are still imprisoned in Epstein’s dungeons Basically, none of this is supported. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/6 "2020-07-21T23:29:05Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Your understanding of the Epstein case is so wildly inaccurate I don’t know where to begin. > Let’s start with…there’s a difference between pedophilia and underage sex. Epstein was not accused of pedophilia… I will concede it seems unlikely, though still possible, that Epstein was involved in trafficking _pre-pubescent_ children, which is what the technical definition of pedophilia entails. However, I don’t think there’s any point in trying to argue over the meaning of that word as it pertains to Epstein. It is the mental shorthand of every normal person in America for “the worst thing that someone can do”, and the optics of Epstein being perceived that way are not going to change. I was astonished today to hear Trump’s statement on Ghislaine Maxwell: “I wish her well.” I mean I cannot believe that’s how he chose to put it. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/7 "2020-07-22T00:10:27Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > However, I don’t think there’s any point in trying to argue over the meaning of that word as it pertains to Epstein. Except that a significant portion of CTers see the Epstein case as proof that things like Comet Pizza and Wayfair actually exist… ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/8 "2020-07-22T00:43:09Z")
There’s always going to be a “fog of war” effect when it comes to scandals involving the ruling-elite. There’s no point in trying to fight it. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/9 "2020-07-22T04:15:16Z")
I have little to know knowledge of this case besides headlines I run across, I haven’t even read any of the articles. ---
**Author:** ![Enjoy\_Slurm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enjoy_slurm/32/3937_2.png) [@Enjoy\_Slurm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enjoy_Slurm)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/10 "2020-07-22T04:39:11Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Basically, none of this is supported. Then show me an article saying the children have been released from Epstein’s dungeons. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I have little to know knowledge of this case besides headlines I run across, I haven’t even read any of the articles. Lucky for you articles for you to read are liked to in this very thread that **you** started. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/11 "2020-07-22T16:00:51Z")
**Moderator Warning** > [@Enjoy\_Slurm](#): > > Yes. None of the children were from America or spoke English. > > > [@](#): > > > > Would the trauma of abuse erase their memories as far as faces was concerned? > > Yes. None of the women saying they saw Trump’s, Epstein’s and Prince Andrews face actually remember seeing their faces. > > > [@](#): > > > > Were these children eventually released? > > No. They are still imprisoned in Epstein’s dungeons I wasn’t quite sure what to make of this post (sarcasm? snark? trolling?), but your subsequent post makes it clear that this is just trolling. This is an official warning for trolling. Do not do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/12 "2020-07-22T16:13:05Z")
[quote=“HoneyBadgerDC, post:1, topic:915943, full:true”] If it does in fact turn out that the rich and famous were using Epstein’s place as pedophile haven I have to wonder how he was able to make his clients feel secure enough to not being exposed.[/quote] Epstein was a pedophile (or ephebophile) himself, so he was risking himself as well. He didn’t have a motivation to attack his “customers” as long as they didn’t attack him. To me, a more interesting question is how did he maintain the loyalty of his staff? There was always a risk that staff would go to the police. This is especially true of anyone who left his employment (especially if they were fired). > [@](#): > > Were the children used from places where they wouldn’t recognize anyone? Would the trauma of abuse erase their memories as far as faces was concerned? I don’t know about the first, but the second is risky. Sometimes the victims remember a lot, sometimes it’s “delayed” and sometimes they don’t remember. Some victims will feel very ashamed, and some could be intimidated. I suspect the abusers aren’t trained psychologists and don’t know this, and might be relying on myths anyway. And some may have an underdeveloped sense of fear. > [@](#): > > Were these children eventually released? There are victims making accusations today so I imagine so. If there were multiple murders or long-term imprisonment, I think law enforcement and the judiciary would have treated the case more seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/13 "2020-07-22T17:00:07Z")
To me (and please, someone correct me if I am way off base here - I haven’t watched any of the documentaries, so I am relying on what news reports I have read + my imagination) there are a few elements at work. 1. These victims were not small children snatched off of streets. These were teen girls being enticed with promises of partying in attractive settings with rich people. I would speculate that many did not see themselves as victims until they were deep into it. Instead they saw themselves as grown up sophisticated (an appealing image to many teens) party girls (again, an appealing image to some). 2. Epstein worked hard to insinuate himself into the upper echelons of society. History is rife with similar strivers and graspers trying to be accepted by the wealthy. Also, I’m going to speculate that in the upper echelons of society, the prospect of men procuring teen aged sex partners was not something Epstein invented. He saw a market niche that happened to coincide with his personal tastes, and he exploited it. 3. Similar to the work that went into coercing the teen girls to get involved, I suspect there was a level of coercion by Epstein for some of the high rollers to participate too (certainly not all, but probably some). Just like with any tribe, individuals go along to get along. 4. And like any good con artist, Epstein would have wanted insurance in case anything got out - hence the alleged recording/taping. Guess it didn’t work out for him personally, but maybe Maxwell will skate? I wouldn’t bet on it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/14 "2020-07-22T17:02:06Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > There are victims making accusations today so I imagine so. If there were multiple murders or long-term imprisonment, I think law enforcement and the judiciary would have treated the case more seriously. Right, AFAICT it was a case of procuring/pimping of teenaged minors, not of children being actually abducted and held imprisoned. And an experienced, successful pimp/procuress knows how to target and groom susceptible teens and how to intimidate cooperation, and also how to pick the sort of patron who won’t be trouble – I mean, that goes on all over every day at many different levels of social environment. **Icarus** ’ post best summarizes what I understand of this case. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/15 "2020-07-22T18:30:55Z")
The OP might want to read up on Francis Shelden and North Fox Island. > **[Jeffrey Epstein was accused of sex trafficking young girls on his mysterious...](https://www.businessinsider.com/jeffrey-epstein-north-fox-island-francis-shelden-2019-8)** > > Jeffrey Epstein was accused of using his wealth, connections, and island to prey on minors. He wasn't the first millionaire to be accused of doing so. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/16 "2020-07-23T01:45:48Z")
This was an interesting and very well produced video though disturbing to watch. He had the money and she had the connections: Inside the wicked saga of Jeffrey Epstein: the arrest of Ghislaine Maxwell | 60 Minutes Australia [Inside the wicked saga of Jeffrey Epstein: The arrest of Ghislaine Maxwell | 60 Minutes Australia - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-9hO4wF_xw) ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/17 "2020-07-23T05:02:26Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > There are victims making accusations today so I imagine so. If there were multiple murders or long-term imprisonment, I think law enforcement and the judiciary would have treated the case more seriously. This entire theory is basically a QAnon fever dream, it’s the same shit as the Pizzagate. Yes, Epstein is a scumbag and a predator, but these claims of dungeons, hostages and trading foreign kids like chattel are not supported by any credible accusations. Many of the women who have come forward against him were of age when the predatory activity started, many were not, but so far all were either outright paid to be there or lured there by promises of money/support. None have accused him of kidnapping or imprisonment, though I’m sure the women stuck on the island or on his jet after being coerced probably felt trapped. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/18 "2020-08-06T16:10:53Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > This entire theory is basically a QAnon fever dream I disagree. I believe that the original focus of Qanon was to troll. Which they have successfully done with many people. Many other people, have also contributed to the trolling started by Qanon, joining the trolling cause. But sorting out the people that are trolling and those that were caught by the troll is difficult to do. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/19 "2020-08-12T21:49:12Z")
wow I wonder if they knew each other somehow … ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-an-epstien-like-operation/915943/20 "2020-08-12T23:27:34Z")
What I find VERY interesting, is that Epstien’s island retreat was not visited by law enforcement until 5 days after his arrest. Should have happened with in an hour, or minutes IMHO. All evidence, video, is probably gone, gone gone. Again IMHO. Five. Days. I don’t believe the FBI is that incompetent.